Wikileaks discussion

[Bad Bird]

Originally Posted by XESP351

Well done for stating the 'obvious' champ.

Unnecessary.

Originally Posted by XESP351

I think you need to read the whole thread, you will find there are posts on here from people who i believe have read the site which led me to say that 'it seems' they published info which can put lives at risk.

Why not be an informed citizen and do your own research? Not an attack on you, but an observation. At the very least you'll be able to make your mind up without hearing it from other people who might have read the site.

[Jim Goose]

I had changed it as i thought i misread your post..... as you were answering about other people and not yourself.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by XESP351

I have never had a look at the site and don't know what they leaked and haven't leaked but it does seem that they did leak critical military/intelligence info which should remain top secret, that's not right, that stuff is top secret for a reason, Loose lips sinks ships as they said.

It's when people lives are at stake because some idiot decided he would stir the pot that it becomes wrong, very wrong.

It's not released by the governments or defense as if there is any other agenda's involved in going to the middle east it would mean there would be a lot of questions asked. If they control the media and supply the propaganda the war will be justified, and if no serious questions are asked of it they go ahead with plans which is what has happened.

Why are top engineers going to the oil wells in Iraq, with a fleet of security around them, or the poppy fields of Afghanistan being allowed to flourish and the heroin being wholesaled out. If the whole object of going there was to catch Bin Laden, stop Al Quaeeda, and find Saddam's big bombs they should of done it by now.

The troops are doing a great job and show a load of bravery in fighting for their country. But Assange is doing the right thing by questioning the motives for them going over there, and if it's found out that they are there for reasons other than terrorism, the public needs to know, thats some pretty bad stuff to deal with. Otherwise, the big planners just keep doing what they are doing without the threat of being scrutinised.

[XESP351]

Really starting to get fed up with this thread, some people just refuse to understand the other side of the issue because they are so fixated on what they want to believe. But one last post from me....

Not sure what emails you mention but the whole thing is very simple.....If, and i'll say again IF, Wikileaks divulges information about US/Coalition forces in a war situation no matter how old or irrelevant you (or the average person who is not involved on the ground) think it is, the information can translate into valuable intelligence for the right person (let's call him the enemy) which can result in my mate/mymate's mate/his mate's American mate getting killed.

Do Wikileaks have defence experts who decide what does and doesn't get published? I highly doubt it. So as i mentioned IF this does happen (and there is certainly high potential it could) that would be why I have a problem with it, and why i think the site should be stopped before someone is killed. I really do not care who they whistleblow against as long as it ain't affecting service men and women serving their country, no matter which country it is.

If it wasn't clear before let's hope it is now....

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by XESP351

Really starting to get fed up with this thread, some people just refuse to understand the other side of the issue because they are so fixated on what they want to believe. But one last post from me....

No need to get like that mate. Everyone has their say and an opinion.

Everyone has just as much chance to say what they like, but as long as they allow others to do the same. The rest of the post was fine but the above quote is best kept to yourself, it only leads to more arguments. As Falcon Coupe mentioned, the thread is on thin ice, but it's a worthy thread to keep up as long as it remains civil

[dad25]

With all the hate mongering over the WIKILEAKS ,nobody seams to deny
the facts there releasing.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION

[nuthin' fancy]

Only for the moment am I saying nothing.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by XESP351

Really starting to get fed up with this thread, some people just refuse to understand the other side of the issue because they are so fixated on what they want to believe. But one last post from me....

Not sure what emails you mention but the whole thing is very simple.....If, and i'll say again IF, Wikileaks divulges information about US/Coalition forces in a war situation no matter how old or irrelevant you (or the average person who is not involved on the ground) think it is, the information can translate into valuable intelligence for the right person (let's call him the enemy) which can result in my mate/mymate's mate/his mate's American mate getting killed.

Do Wikileaks have defence experts who decide what does and doesn't get published? I highly doubt it. So as i mentioned IF this does happen (and there is certainly high potential it could) that would be why I have a problem with it, and why i think the site should be stopped before someone is killed. I really do not care who they whistleblow against as long as it ain't affecting service men and women serving their country, no matter which country it is.

If it wasn't clear before let's hope it is now....

There has been no evidence of anyone's lives put in danger , and the leaks were past tense . Hes not giving away info for future missions . The only thing that has been frowned upon is the lists of possible attack sites that would wreak havoc on us .
But since that they are screening all leaks before posting . Also he offered the us gov to go through and pick the cables that would threaten there/our soldiers and they declined .

If julian is a hero or a villain is up for a opinion i suppose but a least we are finally getting some transparency in politics . An the fact the will do what ever is necessary in freezing accounts possibly setting him up on rape charges all to a man that has not broke an laws as yet is a little scary .

Also the News i heard from the U.S is there changing the laws so they can charge him ( most likely with the death penalty) and also announcing they are making a Free world press day is the exact reason hypocrisy like this needs to be exposed.

[fmc351]

You would have to wonder why sensitive data involving troops and things that would put them in danger isnt classified as top secret anyway.

Other than that, Assange gave the US the option to vet the material before its release. They never bothered. If there is stuff in there that can endanger troops, its the US govt who failed.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by snappy

Also the News i heard from the U.S is there changing the laws so they can charge him ( most likely with the death penalty) and also announcing they are making a Free world press day is the exact reason hypocrisy like this needs to be exposed.

If thats true its shows they will stop at nothing to put people in jail.
No law to charge you?
oops lets make a retorspective law so we can send you to jail because we dont like what your doing and there isnt a current law that covers what you have done.

If that doesnt scare anyone... lets put it in an automotive sence.
How about the laws makers think, we need to get rid of old cars off the road?
The simplest way is to say, we will pass a retrospective law that all cars must pass current emission laws...

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment has been interpreted by the Supreme Court as erecting a separation of church and state.[

[flappist]

Just read on Wikileaks.......

Nazi party is bad and there was an invasion at Normandy.

Rudolf Hess changed teams and brought lots of state secrets with him.

The US dropped every single atom bomb they had on Japan leaving them totally unable to launch any more nuclear attacks.

Oh no........

[fmc351]

...THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!

[ltd]

I'm for the exposure of dodgy governments and the false communications within, but against the exposure of sensitive information such as spy names and locations etc. Luckily, Wikilieaks is against that too. They are being sensitive with information that can lead to peoples alias's being identified and exposed, and are censoring that info. As for the secret agendas of the west, I'd think more would be on side with wikileaks given the dross we've been fed about global warming, one world government, the UN and the world trade organisation.
More power to the people I say.
It's massive news in the USA at the moment too, with some of the leaks weighing heavily on the US government. Interesting times ahead methinks.

[BAxtER]

Originally Posted by ltd

I'm for the exposure of dodgy governments and the false communications within, but against the exposure of sensitive information such as spy names and locations etc. Luckily, Wikilieaks is against that too. They are being sensitive with information that can lead to peoples alias's being identified and exposed, and are censoring that info. As for the secret agendas of the west, I'd think more would be on side with wikileaks given the dross we've been fed about global warming, one world government, the UN and the world trade organisation.
More power to the people I say.
It's massive news in the USA at the moment too, with some of the leaks weighing heavily on the US government. Interesting times ahead methinks.

Once again ltd, well said!!
Many people in the USA are fed up of the government at the moment. It seems the only politician coming close for the people is Ron Paul. Was watching the protesters in the CBD of Brisbane today in support for Julian Assange and Wikileaks.

[vztrt]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/oa...210-18row.html

Oakes labels Gillard and Abbott 'political pygmies'
December 10, 2010 - 7:54AM

Veteran television political reporter Laurie Oakes has branded Prime Minister Julia Gillard's stance on WikiLeaks "ridiculous" as he accepted the highest honour in journalism, a Gold Walkley award.

The Nine Network Canberra press gallery journalist took the award for the most outstanding piece of journalism for his coverage of the Labor leaks during the federal election campaign.

He also won the Walkley for television reporting.

"The leaks that made this story possible didn't dominate the campaign, but they played a very big role in the campaign. I don't think they should've," he said at the awards ceremony in Melbourne last night.

"[But] there was nothing else, there were no issues, there was no policy inspiration, there were no ideas.

"We had two parties led by two political pygmies."

Oakes criticised Ms Gillard and Attorney-General Robert McClelland for their comments about WikiLeaks' release of US diplomatic cables.

"What they said was ridiculous," he said.

"To brand what the WikiLeaks site has done as illegal when there's no evidence of any breach of the law, I think is demeaning ... I think as journalists we should make that our view."

Kerry O'Brien, who presented his final The 7.30 Report program after 15 years last night, won the Walkley for journalistic leadership.

The veteran current affairs presenter also won the Walkley for best interview for his exchanges with Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott.

"I'm stunned. I did not expect this," O'Brien told the audience.

"Tonight was my last show for 7.30, as you know, and I was determined to play a straight bat and I managed to, and now you've got me, you bastards."

Shirley Shackleton, a widow of one of the Balibo Five, won the Walkley Book Award for The Circle of Silence: A Personal Testimony Before, During and After Balibo.

The Age newspaper photographer Jason South claimed the Walkley Press Photographer of the Year.

AAP

[Bobman]

Well said, Laurie!

Stuff the politicians. None have a brain, otherwise they wouldn't be in Government!

[pulpist]

Congratulations to the governments who have turned a leak into an internet freedom battle. You really handled that one well. Call me cynical but if our governments can cosy up to disgusting regime as found in Saudi then surely having a few bods working with the people of Wikileaks redacting sensitive information that could put individuals in danger would have been a reasonable exercise in damage limitation, it's not like that doesn't happen with the press, so why not a website?
Instead we are seeing a tantrum that simply makes our governments look like petulant schoolyard bullies. DDOS attacks? Calls for the execution of some guy who runs a website? Really?

Idiocy all round

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by pulpist

Congratulations to the governments who have turned a leak into an internet freedom battle. You really handled that one well. Call me cynical but if our governments can cosy up to disgusting regime as found in Saudi then surely having a few bods working with the people of Wikileaks redacting sensitive information that could put individuals in danger would have been a reasonable exercise in damage limitation, it's not like that doesn't happen with the press, so why not a website?
Instead we are seeing a tantrum that simply makes our governments look like petulant schoolyard bullies. DDOS attacks? Calls for the execution of some guy who runs a website? Really?

Idiocy all round

Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

I think the dogs and cats living together is just pushing it a bit....

[pulpist]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

I think the dogs and cats living together is just pushing it a bit....

I'd comment, but I've already had one facetious post deleted

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

I think the dogs and cats living together is just pushing it a bit....

Its straight out of the movie Ghostbusters. Each line said by a different team member, the last one by Venkman (Bill Murray). The apocalypse, was upon us.


Zuul!!!

[WMD351]

So he's been doing the war diaries for how long now endangering lives and giving away military secrets and it's all been ho-hum, but hang on, now that Cablegate has embarrassed some big names it's time to cut his head off?

For the record Jim, I really was in Iraq during Shock and Awe (honest I was), but they smuggled me out to Syria just before the ground troops came in.

[BA Baracus]

To be honest this Julian fella looks kind of like a weasel. He seems unlikable and as a face to all this a pretty easy target. I disliked this bloke when read things about him prior to all this current hoopla but he's now looking a lot better in my opinion. I hope he keeps his face in the media so he doesn't end up dead because it's pretty fair to assume he might accidentally fall off a cliff.

It's amazing to me though that it's taken this weirdo bloke to get people talking so seriously about America's clear unaccountability to the rest of the world. Look at Guantanamo Bay etc. It's been clear for years that they can do whatever the hell they like even on a world stage. No judge or jury, no laws involved, free reign to do whatever they see fit to 'fight the good fight'. It seems even a lot of American people are now opening their eyes to what's really going on and that can't be a bad thing in my opinion.

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Kinda? So he was kinda guilty?
Again... nothing has been proven to tie him in with 911..
Osama's ties financially are/were with various members of the Royal Saudi Family....

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2004/1...age041029.html

Bin Laden claims responsibility for 9/11


Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden appeared in a new message aired on an Arabic TV station Friday night, for the first time claiming direct responsibility for the 2001 attacks against the United States.


I posted this from a Canadian website so that people would not say it was an American thing. The man himself claimed he was responsible.


Steve

[rodderz]

Going over 9/11 again opens up an already open can of worms, but imo those articles can be taken with a grain of salt. Assuming that Bin Laden actually admitted to those things in the article it would take some real know-how and planning to organise such a feat, a feat I think he would be unable to achieve, or he may be saying those things to spur on fellow muslims. On the other hand the whole article could be fabricated as part of a propaganda program.

Too many questions, not enough answers. All the better for wikileaks to pose those questions foreward.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2004/1...age041029.html

Bin Laden claims responsibility for 9/11


Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden appeared in a new message aired on an Arabic TV station Friday night, for the first time claiming direct responsibility for the 2001 attacks against the United States.


I posted this from a Canadian website so that people would not say it was an American thing. The man himself claimed he was responsible.


Steve

Seriously?? Really? that was him????
Yes I have seen all those videos and heard all those messages...
You also forget that within 24hrs of the attack he released a message saying his condoleneces to the family and how horrid the attacks were. He also denounced them.... In another message he also said he was not responsible. so lets move on.

[red_hotxr6]

My 2 cents worth here but, ...we have moderators here, if someone says something that is not relevant to the subject matter or is being abusive DELETE IT and give a warning, there are 2 many people on here that want to have there say and probably add and inform a few of us on here as to what is happening, not only 2 wikkileaks but to a lot of other contraversial stuff on this site, and i for one would love to hear what other sensible have to say without the dreaded...CLOSE THIS THREAD. The other thing that bothers me is how many people jump on the band wagon and want to shoot the good ol U.S.A down for what they are doing, hello what if they wernt there, who is going to wave the big stick??? you and i know they arent angels, but any one know who pol pot is, edi amin, adolf hitler, stalin....etc and what language would we be talking today if they were not here to help in world war 2? Like i said, they arent angels, but i would rather have them around as not.......now i hope i havent stepped on any toes..but yeah.......

[irish2]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

My 2 cents worth here but, ...we have moderators here, if someone says something that is not relevant to the subject matter or is being abusive DELETE IT and give a warning, there are 2 many people on here that want to have there say and probably add and inform a few of us on here as to what is happening, not only 2 wikkileaks but to a lot of other contraversial stuff on this site, and i for one would love to hear what other sensible have to say without the dreaded...CLOSE THIS THREAD. The other thing that bothers me is how many people jump on the band wagon and want to shoot the good ol U.S.A down for what they are doing, hello what if they wernt there, who is going to wave the big stick??? you and i know they arent angels, but any one know who pol pot is, edi amin, adolf hitler, stalin....etc and what language would we be talking today if they were not here to help in world war 2? Like i said, they arent angels, but i would rather have them around as not.......now i hope i havent stepped on any toes..but yeah.......

Hitler shot himself. Stalin Died of a stroke. Pol Pot died of old age in 1998 whilst under United Nations recognition, as the rightful government of Cambodia. Idi Amin died of old age in 2003, aged 78.

The American government joined WW2 in the 11th hour after being attacked by Japan. Were they going to step up without the attack? No.

So what exactly has America done other than look after its' own interests? Don't get me wrong most countries and people do the exact same thing.

[red_hotxr6]

Originally Posted by irish2

Hitler shot himself. Stalin Died of a stroke. Pol Pot died of old age in 1998 whilst under United Nations recognition, as the rightful government of Cambodia. Idi Amin died of old age in 2003, aged 78.

The American government joined WW2 in the 11th hour after being attacked by Japan. Were they going to step up without the attack? No.

So what exactly has America done other than look after its' own interests? Don't get me wrong most countries and people do the exact same thing.

Ahmm, hitler had millions butchered up front, Stalin had millions butchered up front, and i think their royal family as well, Pol pot had millions butchered up front, Edi amin had millions butchered up front as well.
Now i am quite sure if a country had a choice of NOT going to war they would take it, but when they did, look at how many men they lost trying to get to japan...And every country looks after its own interests, period...I would still prefer having the u.s.a on my side than any of the above mentioned or osama bin laden or that old IL JONG of north korea??/ or the other guy in Iran...again only my 2 cents worth but they are the better option...by far.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

My 2 cents worth here but, ...we have moderators here, if someone says something that is not relevant to the subject matter or is being abusive DELETE IT and give a warning, there are 2 many people on here that want to have there say and probably add and inform a few of us on here as to what is happening, not only 2 wikkileaks but to a lot of other contraversial stuff on this site, and i for one would love to hear what other sensible have to say without the dreaded...CLOSE THIS THREAD. The other thing that bothers me is how many people jump on the band wagon and want to shoot the good ol U.S.A down for what they are doing, hello what if they wernt there, who is going to wave the big stick??? you and i know they arent angels, but any one know who pol pot is, edi amin, adolf hitler, stalin....etc and what language would we be talking today if they were not here to help in world war 2? Like i said, they arent angels, but i would rather have them around as not.......now i hope i havent stepped on any toes..but yeah.......

Er umm... so your asking the mods not to close the thread because of too many off topic posts... and you add to it by posting off topic ?

*edit*