Wikileaks discussion

[Ben73]

Too my understanding he was not releasing Top Secret military defense plans to terrorists. But he was helping expose dodgy politicians and bank managers and other things like that.
Insiders were coming to him with the info about dodgy people and he was posting the info on his website. So he is not entirely to blame.

I have tried to access the wikileaks website multiple times, but it never works.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I have tried to access the wikileaks website multiple times, but it never works.

Its now based on a new server, so has a new address that doesn't come up on google for some reason -

http://www.wikileaks.ch/

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

to me that says he fears for his life . he probably figures his life is now ruined and is going to leave it to the crazy legal system for the public to witness an example of corruption

More likely it is the notion he would be considered guilty of the alleged crimes if he went on the run avoiding those charges. Theres also an added hindrance to his movements, beyond that of the wikileaks stuff. More over, the leaks cant get him arrested if he should come across a police officer while moving from hideout to hideout. He hasnt broken any laws, the alleged rape is the only thing they have to get at him. He wants to neutralise that threat.

I have no doubt he fears for his life, and that of family too, he has said as much through representatives. I doubt thats his motivation for handing himself in though.

[Jim Goose]

He was refused bail....

Yes im sure he is getting fair treatment.....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/

I have no doubt he fears for his life, and that of family too, he has said as much through representatives. I doubt thats his motivation for handing himself in though.

According to the news last night his mother and brother have also received death threats as well

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Its now based on a new server, so has a new address that doesn't come up on google for some reason -

http://www.wikileaks.ch/

Who knew Doogie Howser would be this controversial when he grew up.

[flappist]

I just can't understand why this hasn't been solved.

After all NCIS, CSI, FBI BAU, Stargate Command and of course Michael Weston all have cybergeeks who can hack these sites in under 30 seconds and delete everything while tracking everyone involved via their GPS/phone/cufflink at the same time sending a team of hot chicks who would not look out of place in playboy and guys from fireman calendar to instantly intercept the bad guys after a huge firefight where no one including people who normally working in blown up buildings or drive on the same roads as the exploding cars got hurt.

It must be true, I saw it on TV........

[Fled74]

Put Jack Bauer on the case.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by flappist

I just can't understand why this hasn't been solved.

After all NCIS, CSI, FBI BAU, Stargate Command and of course Michael Weston all have cybergeeks who can hack these sites in under 30 seconds and delete everything while tracking everyone involved via their GPS/phone/cufflink at the same time sending a team of hot chicks who would not look out of place in playboy and guys from fireman calendar to instantly intercept the bad guys after a huge firefight where no one including people who normally working in blown up buildings or drive on the same roads as the exploding cars got hurt.

It must be true, I saw it on TV........

HAAAH !

[platinumXR]

Assange is an idealistic, deluded and petulant 12 year old and has no idea of the sort of damage he will cause because of his misguided and arrogant notion of freedom and butterflies and ponies and fairies for everyone!... but what will change will be the security / and information handling of Gummint's information infrastructures in the future.

'nuff said.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Assange is an idealistic, deluded and petulant 12 year old and has no idea of the sort of damage he will cause because of his misguided and arrogant notion of freedom and butterflies and ponies and fairies for everyone!... but what will change will be the security / and information handling of Gummint's information infrastructures in the future.

'nuff said.

after eading that statement i'd be just as qualified to say that about you .

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Assange is an idealistic, deluded and petulant 12 year old and has no idea of the sort of damage he will cause because of his misguided and arrogant notion of freedom and butterflies and ponies and fairies for everyone!... but what will change will be the security / and information handling of Gummint's information infrastructures in the future.

'nuff said.

So who’s the deluded one??

As long as governments and corporations conduct themselves in unethical ways, there will always be people involved who actually have some form of social conscience, and access to damaging confidential information. These people will leak the information in order to hold these governments and corporations accountable for their actions, which would otherwise be able to continue in secrecy.

If Wikileaks is stopped, another version will soon surface. There will always be a ready supply of informants. It can’t be stopped. (thankfully)

[BAxtER]

I salute Julian for standing up to Governments when others couldnt. What people dont see is that these days people are to lenient to politicans/ Governments.
Now im not a greeny lefty whatever you want to call them I for one DONT believe in global warming, but the mass media never show me two sides to the story, only the one that the government wants me to see. because its going to get them a nice big tax grab.

Its the same situation with Julian Assange and Wikileaks, im yet to hear anyone from the media defend this guy or say what he did was right in terms of democracy. Or even say that talk of him being assasinated is wrong.

Im not saying or asking for every minuscule piece of information that governments keep secret to be released. But people need to understand if we think what has happened with the leaks of such information is a bad thing, then we might as well sign off democracy in this world for good,
because by being so lenient to politicans we ourselves are letting our freedoms run down the drain. We are also allowing corruption and control of the population by governments to increase. THIS is what i find unnacceptable.

[Bad Bird]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Assange is an idealistic, deluded and petulant 12 year old and has no idea of the sort of damage he will cause because of his misguided and arrogant notion of freedom and butterflies and ponies and fairies for everyone!... but what will change will be the security / and information handling of Gummint's information infrastructures in the future.

Let's just all line up, bend over and take it. Let's just get it over and done with.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by BAxtER

I salute Julian for standing up to Governments when others couldnt. What people dont see is that these days people are to lenient to politicans/ Governments.
Now im not a greeny lefty whatever you want to call them I for one DONT believe in global warming, but the mass media never show me two sides to the story, only the one that the government wants me to see. because its going to get them a nice big tax grab.

Its the same situation with Julian Assange and Wikileaks, im yet to hear anyone from the media defend this guy or say what he did was right in terms of democracy. Or even say that talk of him being assasinated is wrong.

Im not saying or asking for every minuscule piece of information that governments keep secret to be released. But people need to understand if we think what has happened with the leaks of such information is a bad thing, then we might as well sign off democracy in this world for good,
because by being so lenient to politicans we ourselves are letting our freedoms run down the drain. We are also allowing corruption and control of the population by governments to increase. THIS is what i find unnacceptable.

There are a few articles floating around that support him, and call into question the dubious charges brought by Sweden. Some linked in this thread.

You may want to find better sources for your news.

[BAxtER]

Originally Posted by fmc351

There are a few articles floating around that support him, and call into question the dubious charges brought by Sweden. Some linked in this thread.

You may want to find better sources for your news.

There are, but im talking about tv media, Sunrise, Today show, etc etc. I should have clarified that in my orginal post. i dont use the above mentioned as my info for media...but the mass general public do.

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by BAxtER

There are, but im talking about tv media, Sunrise, Today show, etc etc. I should have clarified that in my orginal post. i dont use the above mentioned as my info for media...but the mass general public do.

Exactly ....

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by BAxtER

There are, but im talking about tv media, Sunrise, Today show, etc etc. I should have clarified that in my orginal post. i dont use the above mentioned as my info for media...but the mass general public do.

Exactly! The commercial media at large is pretty pathetic when it comes to reporting real news. One indication of how bad (at least CH9 anyways) is how one reporter a few days ago (Ben Fordham) went into a 5minute personal attack on Assange and how terrible he is. His opening line went something like "How would you feel if all your personal emails were made public for the whole world to see....."

Last night CH9 dedicated 30seconds to Assange.... but then had a 6min report on the arrival on "OPRAH'S" audience from the USA.

A while back when the Prince of Wales announced his engaugement, CH9 News had a whole 11mins on the "news", the next segment was 5mins worth on Oprahs trip to Aus.... Two more stories made the news that night and it was all over. Followed by a 20min segment on ACA.... then a 1HR special afterwards !

I mean seriously, the media here barely reports the real news.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

I mean seriously, the media here barely reports the real news.

Unfortunately real news doesn't rate. Look how people on here get their knickers in a twist of ACA stories. The commercial media will report the the average intelligence of their viewers. Unfortunately the media seems to be getting more simpler every week.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

after eading that statement i'd be just as qualified to say that about you .

I don't know how you can draw that comparison, my line of work is scrutinized so much that it is barely able to function in any capacity.

I stand by my statement and I will not be swayed.

Doing what he did will not change the world for the Fantastic Utopia he thinks he can generate from this kind of foolish and dangerous treason. There are far greater implications that just 'trying to keep the bastards honest' and doing it in the way he has means he is no better that the institutions he is trying to subvert. The hypocracy and irony is so thick you would need a chainsaw to cut through it.

And I am in no way refering to the alleged 'sexual assault' charges...they are not part of what I am refering to and I have no comment on that.

Living in a democracy means you have the right to keep secrets yourself, whether you are a bricklayer, bus driver, Ambulance Paramedic, Politician or chef.

You cannot seriously expect anyone reading this forum to believe that you or anyone else has not been 100% honest, 100% ethical or 100% transparent in the past? Myself included. It is very easy to berate a Government representative for being a little honest and human, among other things brought to light.

Ask any soldier what he did to ensure your safe, comfortable and prosperous livelihood.

I have said my piece and defended my position and will not be swayed so I will bow out of the discussion.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Living in a democracy means you have the right to keep secrets yourself, whether you are a bricklayer, bus driver, Ambulance Paramedic, Politician or chef.

Wow. You dont want to know when a politician is lying to you. Its easy enough, their mouth is moving.

Youre confusing private citizens, and their private activities, with corporations, and elected members of government, and their employed servants.


If some politician is gay or whatever, what they do in the privacy of their home or hotel is their business. If they stand on anti-gay mantra, its public business. That doesnt happen publicly for private citizens, and shouldnt either.

If a bank is colluding with other banks, thats public business, not private.

[Jim Goose]

Living in a democracy means you have the right to keep secrets yourself, whether you are a bricklayer, bus driver, Ambulance Paramedic, Politician or chef.

Not when those "secrets" affect the public in general.

People keep using the word treason a lot...

The Treason Clause applies only to disloyal acts committed during times of war. Acts of dis-loyalty during peacetime are not considered treasonous under the Constitution. Nor do acts of Espionage committed on behalf of an ally constitute treason. For example, julius and ethel rosenberg were convicted of espionage, in 1951, for helping the Soviet Union steal atomic secrets from the United States during World War II. The Rosenbergs were not tried for treason because the United States and the Soviet Union were allies during World War II.

The USA has NEVER declared war on Afghanistan or Iraq....
Neither has Australia or any other country who invaded 2 nations

The information on his website are not "secret"... and its hasnt been sold to foreign powers. Its been made PUBLIC.

[WMD351]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

If you prefer to live in a world full of corrupt governments, companies, banks etc and have your rights taken away from you then good luck to you.

I thought that was the world we'd been living in for the last 2000 years or more.
It is most certainly far from perfect but it could also be a lot worse, so I figure it's a case of better the devil you know. Something along the lines of "Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

But I prefer to live in a nicer place where you dont have to look over your shoulder because you "rock the boat" and tell it like it is...

The consequences of rocking the boat are you destabilize it and run the risk of the boat capsizing and sinking, and if the other people on board start to get nervous and fear for their safety (regardless of whether or not that fear is justified and valid), there's a good chance they're going to get together and throw you out.

[Polyal]

For someone of my generation this would have to be one of the bigger things that could effect our way of life.....not a revolution but similar in a way....

The guy knew what he is doing, what was going to happen and perhaps what could still happen to him...It's all very interesting to say the least.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by WMD351

I thought that was the world we'd been living in for the last 2000 years or more.
It is most certainly far from perfect but it could also be a lot worse, so I figure it's a case of better the devil you know. Something along the lines of "Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

So in other words other people do someone elses dirty work and most of the time its just on a whim or to flex their big muscles?

Originally Posted by WMD351

The consequences of rocking the boat are you destabilize it and run the risk of the boat capsizing and sinking, and if the other people on board start to get nervous and fear for their safety (regardless of whether or not that fear is justified and valid), there's a good chance they're going to get together and throw you out.

And that you agree with the status quo.... do nothing, see nothing, just keep walking past, dont be involved, be a lemming, dont strive for change.....

[fmc351]

I wonder how people here would view a wikileak from state governments about revenue and speed cameras. Or strategically lowering limits to fill some shortfall in the budget.

Oh wait, its secret and shouldnt be shared publicly. Youre right, we dont want to know.

[Jim Goose]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...09/3088550.htm

Arbib warned US of Gillard coup

New documents from WikiLeaks reveal Labor powerbroker Mark Arbib warned the United States about a possible challenge to Kevin Rudd's prime ministership as early as last year.

Extracts published in Fairfax newspapers show that in October last year, Senator Arbib secretly told US diplomats that Mr Rudd wanted to prevent a challenge from Julia Gillard.

The cables say Senator Arbib told diplomats that Mr Rudd, now Australia's Foreign Minister, wanted ''to ensure that there are viable alternatives to Gillard within the Labor Party to forestall a challenge''.

The cables suggest Senator Arbib has been secretly informing the US embassy in Canberra for several years.

The former Labor minister Bob McMullan and the federal MP Michael Danby have also been revealed as close sources.

An embassy profile written in July 2009 says of Senator Arbib: ''He understands the importance of supporting a vibrant relationship with the US while not being too deferential."

So there you go, the US knew MORE then the Australia public during the time they plotted to remove a serving prime minister....
Could be why our "leader" isnt showing Assange any favours?
Because Wikileaks have some very damaging info?

Oh but wait.. some people prefer not to know about this sort of collusion

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...09/3088550.htm


So there you go, the US knew MORE then the Australia public during the time they plotted to remove a serving prime minister....
Could be why our "leader" isnt showing Assange any favours?
Because Wikileaks have some very damaging info?

Oh but wait.. some people prefer not to know about this sort of collusion

Not so much that they don't want to know as they don't want others to know.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by flappist

Not so much that they don't want to know as they don't want others to know.

Others who? Do you honestly believe any government, anywhere, doesnt have similar documents? They may not know exactly what is said, but they'd have the gist of it. The only people not aware of these types of things is the general public.


They all do it, they all know the nature of them. The only thing those concerned are worried about, is now the public get an insight in to some of it. Its become a little harder for them to maintain their public images.

The sky hasnt fallen yet.

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Open letter to the PM:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41914.html

Some 250 people have attached their names to this letter in support;



Its these sorts of disgusting comments which go unpunished that make me sick.
Who on earth do these so called public figures think they are?????
Serioulsy this is unheard of....

The rest of the letter can be read at the above link.

I had to look into this reference from the above mentioned article....

Sarah Palin, a likely presidential candidate, compares Assange to an Al Qaeda leader;

COMPARES they say. Well, here were her words.....

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225963202173

"Assange is not a 'journalist,' any more than the 'editor' of al-Qa'ida's new English-language magazine Inspire is a 'journalist,''' Palin said of the Australian-born WikiLeaks founder.

Here she says that he is not a journalist.


"He is an anti-American operative with blood on his hands,'' she said.

"His past posting of classified documents revealed the identity of more than 100 Afghan sources to the Taliban.

"Why was he not pursued with the same urgency we pursue al-Qa'ida and Taliban leaders?'' she said.


She asked why he is not pursued with the same URGENCY when he is revealing sensitive info to the Taliban.


Maybe it's just me, but she seems to label him a threat. She does not compare him to an al-Qa'ida leader. From the Aussie article I thought she name a leader and compared Assange to him specifically. She does label him as dissiminating information to the enemy.


So with that, I have to wonder how accurate the rest of the claims are in that article.

Steve

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I had to look into this reference from the above mentioned article....

Sarah Palin, a likely presidential candidate, compares Assange to an Al Qaeda leader;

COMPARES they say. Well, here were her words.....

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225963202173

"Assange is not a 'journalist,' any more than the 'editor' of al-Qa'ida's new English-language magazine Inspire is a 'journalist,''' Palin said of the Australian-born WikiLeaks founder.

Here she says that he is not a journalist.


"He is an anti-American operative with blood on his hands,'' she said.

"His past posting of classified documents revealed the identity of more than 100 Afghan sources to the Taliban.

"Why was he not pursued with the same urgency we pursue al-Qa'ida and Taliban leaders?'' she said.


She asked why he is not pursued with the same URGENCY when he is revealing sensitive info to the Taliban.


Maybe it's just me, but she seems to label him a threat. She does not compare him to an al-Qa'ida leader. From the Aussie article I thought she name a leader and compared Assange to him specifically. She does label him as dissiminating information to the enemy.


So with that, I have to wonder how accurate the rest of the claims are in that article.

Steve

She doesnt have state the word "leader" for the implication to be clear. Youre expectation based on that word is too narrow.

Blood on his hands
Enemy agent
Same urgency we pursue taliban etc

The implication is clear.