GM Situation in US getting worse

[Gobes32]

Holden love will never win on these forums........

[500SEC]

Thanks for the link to GM's recovery plan... very interesting to read.

If it wasn't so serious, I'd laugh at GM's plan for saving itself. All of a sudden they're going to release a collection of hybrids by 2014. Let's not forget that hybrids cost a whole lot more to buy than non-hybrids and don't really save the planet in the way that unsuspecting consumers think. There are still problems associated with battery powered vehicles that reduce their viability as an alternative to petrol-powered models. I just don't think GM can stake its future on them, although the Volt sounds very interesting.

Ahead of 2014, their report says they'll be profitable in two years. Now I find this claim rather incredible.

Note the comments about Holden on page 13. It says that the Australian government will provide permanent grants to support Holden to release a new fuel efficient vehicle. I guess this refers to the $6b that is to be provided to the whole industry over the next five years ??

Frederick

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Nothing true there ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

GM are not expecting to make any money on Volt. It's just a halo vehicle to tell the world that GM is up there with the best when it comes to alternative and viable automotive technology.

GM have released heaps more new models than any other North American car maker over the past few years. And I'm not just referring to brand multiplicity.

Ford have a good business plan only if the market doesn't stay the same way over the next year or so. Ford's market share has plummeted over the past few years because people are not buying cars from Detroit - I don't see where your comment "good products that people want to buy" has any substance. A 14% market share isn't exactly better than Toyota's, which is easily the second biggest car maker in the US and ahead of Chrysler's 10%.

Speak for yourself, Allan Mullaly has said the things I mentioned numerous times, but I guess a Holden troll knows more about Fords business plan than he does.

No wonder GM are losing money spending hundreds of millions on a hybrid just so they look better, while losing money at the same time.

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Then tell me why their past few quarters were huge losses? The results are listed above. Their cash burn is enough to last them through to the end of this year. That's nine months away.

I've got the quarterly results to go by. What do you base your comments on?

Ford might well have new models coming but that's gonna do squat when nobody is buying.

Taking the devil's advocate position then, are you saying Ford would be best served to have been sitting on their hands these past few years, saving money that they spent on new product development and technologies, so that when the economy starts picking up again they can pick up where they left off, declining market share and so-so products?

Or, is the fact that they have hacked operating expenses and company volume, invested in product development, enabling them to hit the market with new, better, and exciting products like they are right now so that when the market starts an upswing Ford will be poised to leap out of the gate?

Then tell me why their past few quarters were huge losses?

Because gasoline shot up to $4 a gallon and they did not have enough 35 MPG vehicles, beyond the Focus, to sell. Also, the economy tanked and every auto company had HUGE losses. It was not unique to Ford, but 4 quarters ago before all this happened Ford turned a profit, but you are not asking why that happened.





Steve

[prydey]

i know this thread is about GM and to a degree Ford, but considering toyota's name has been mentioned a bit i thought i'd speculate a little.

Is it possible that toyota's 'loss', could be due to new equipment of any kind? new tooling or manufacturing procedures that we don't know about?

this is a genuine question. sometimes the old addage ' you have to spend money to make money', rings true. maybe they spent up big in 08 in preparation for the future.

i remember a few years ago, not long after the movie/doco 'supersize me' came out that mcdonalds reportedly made a loss for the first time in years and there was speculation flying around that it was backlash from the film etc etc. turns out it was merely them spending up on new equipment and now its all business as usual.

like i said, genuine question. is it possible?

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Taking the devil's advocate position then, are you saying Ford would be best served to have been sitting on their hands these past few years, saving money that they spent on new product development and technologies, so that when the economy starts picking up again they can pick up where they left off, declining market share and so-so products?

Or, is the fact that they have hacked operating expenses and company volume, invested in product development, enabling them to hit the market with new, better, and exciting products like they are right now so that when the market starts an upswing Ford will be poised to leap out of the gate?

No.

Yes. Ford definitely haven't been sitting idle. They've done very well trying to position themselves in a stable position financially. They've got billions in cash reserves. They've still got Volvo to shelve if they need to. If it weren't for the financial crisis, Ford would be looking in great shape right now. In fact, Ford originally stated that they would return to profit in 2009, but have since revised their timeline to 2011 at the earliest, due to the economic slowdown. Nothing new here, it's been posted in many articles.

I just read on another forum that Ford's sales have dropped 48% in Feb from last year. That's gotta hurt their bottom line. And low margin vehicles like Focus, Fiesta etc... aren't going to help them much financially but could make their sales results seem better in the short term.

Is it possible that toyota's 'loss', could be due to new equipment of any kind? new tooling or manufacturing procedures that we don't know about?

As for Toyota, they have had a number of recalls in the US and they bet the farm on the Tundra launch, which didn't achieve the expected sales targets. Totyota's sales in the US have fallen as much as GM's. The Japanese market is also bleeding by a similar figure. Will Toyota ease their way out of the doldrums? Time will tell but Toyota is number one, not because of accident. They are re-organising their management and processes to return to profitability. That's a sign of a great organisation, hell bent on continued success. Compare that to GM's failure to arrest the slide of the past few decades.

As for the other posts... I won't respond to the crap.

[Wally]

Umm, yesterday Toyota approached the Japanese Govt bank for money. Mitsubishi are getting money for their govt to pay wages.

Bossxr8, I have just as much legitimacy as anyone to be a member here. I have owned several Falcons and Ford derivatives. I have a current Ford project car. Many members here wouldn't be exclusively Ford families either.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Wally

Well obviously there is a plan, otherwise the US Congress wouldn't have given them the money.

Enjoy:-

http://gmfactsandfiction.com/wp-cont...1709-final.pdf

Was interesting - they plan slight market share growth, and a US Market Growth, that based on January's figure is overstated by 10%. Jan Figures also show a reduction in market share.

Internationally market share - they state a only reduction from 12.4% to 12% - is that really likely with the sale of SAAB and Opel ? (and potentially others)

The Fleet economy of Trucks will drop for 2 years before getting better than it is now ??? - I really do not understand why GM say that.

5 new hybrids in two years and then in the next two years 12 more, and a dramatic jump in alternative fuel car sales currently 17% jump to over 60% in two years - that will kill some jobs dependant on traditional Petrol engine cars, and spin up some more in other areas - but can any large company change 2/3 of it production in two years - obviously GM hope So.

Global GM return to profit comes a year after North America GM return to profit - I dont think they actually realise what country the problem is in.

Oh, that is interesting, a hidden statement that the government needs to keep the supply chain in place for this all to work - there is a fun hidden cost beyond the bailout.

And 7.7 billion in loans from the department of energy

And an assumption of 6 billion in loans from Governments outside the US.

So the 30 Billion bailout is actually
30 + 7.7 + 6 + supply chain bailout ... maybe 50 million by the time it happens !

[Luke Plaizier]

Pick those extra zeroes up you dropped, they are all over the floor young man....

Lukeyson

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Pick those extra zeroes up you dropped, they are all over the floor young man....

Lukeyson

I aint young !

what is three zeroes between friends ?

[SSbaby]

This info from another forum...

Just finished watching my dealer webcast...interesting facts...

1) Chrysler was down 41-42% in January, versus Ford at 48% IIRC and GM over 50% Toyota was down 37%.

2) Here's where it gets interesting...Chrysler sold more cars on a retail basis than Ford did last month!!! Chrysler's RETAIL sales were down 21%, versus 45% for Ford and 48% for GM (you'll notice, I pay a lot more attention to retail share, because as a dealer its all I care about )

3) Chrysler has sold more cars than Ford at retail only 2 months prior, in its history.

4) Chrysler's retail share increased from 9.6% to 11.0%, year-over-year.

Interesting stuff...as for total market share??

Chrysler = 11.9% (12.5% last January)
Ford = 13.6% (15.5% last January)
GM = 17.9% (22.4% last January)...that number is painful

Japanese = an increase to 39.4% from 36.7%
Koreans = here was the amazing part...an increase from 4.4% to 7.5%!! Dare I say the "Hyundai Advantage" is working??????

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

This info from another forum...

A GM forum judging by the comments.. GM have taken a huge wack looking at their numbers...

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

I aint young !

what is three zeroes between friends ?

hey, 3 zeroes are fine by me, just as long as they are to the right of the decimal point....


Lukeyson

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Wally

Umm, yesterday Toyota approached the Japanese Govt bank for money. Mitsubishi are getting money for their govt to pay wages.

Bossxr8, I have just as much legitimacy as anyone to be a member here. I have owned several Falcons and Ford derivatives. I have a current Ford project car. Many members here wouldn't be exclusively Ford families either.

What? I didn't comment on anything you posted.

But I have noticed that all your posts slander Ford though. I can't understand why you own one if you hate the company so much.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But I have noticed that all your posts slander Ford though. I can't understand why you own one if you hate the company so much.

Does being a "troll" do that to you ?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

This info from another forum...

For the Chrysler data, are they still doing the employee pricing on the cars that was losing them a lot of money or has this been lifted yet?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

................
But I have noticed that all your posts slander Ford though. I can't understand why you own one if you hate the company so much.

Show me a post that I slander Ford... I wasn't aware of it. I will admit I sometimes question the validity of member's posts, but only because they are hysterical nonsense. I do drive a V8 VE, but who wouldn't if they could afford it?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

I aint young !

what is three zeroes between friends ?

Can I have those 3 zeroes taken off my mortgage?!

[Mercury 8]

Originally Posted by Wally

I do drive a V8 VE, but who wouldn't if they could afford it?

Been flogging them off cheap as chips Wally so affordability ain't to much of an issue to most.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Wally

Show me a post that I slander Ford... I wasn't aware of it. I will admit I sometimes question the validity of member's posts, but only because they are hysterical nonsense. I do drive a V8 VE, but who wouldn't if they could afford it?

Come on Wally... you question the validity of any post that challenges or is in contrast to your blatant one eyed blinkered views... its your way of deflecting the need to accept or face the horrible truth that's confronting you.
By the way.. new V8 Calais' Vs are in fire sale mode, so you're right, for the price of a FG G6E!! you can buy a Calais V... Resale value anyone??

[Gobes32]

So march 31st is D-Day for GM? How long till we find out if they will be bailed out or not? The next day or weeks afterwards?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Come on Wally... you question the validity of any post that challenges or is in contrast to your blatant one eyed blinkered views... its your way of deflecting the need to accept or face the horrible truth that's confronting you.

Lighten up guys, without the wisdom of my guiding hand in this thread, the Godaweful truth of the dilemna facing GM, Chrysler and Ford would become nothing, but a back slapping exercise without any substance other than favourable Google searches.

Apart from the obvious tongue in cheek, by all means show me some posts where I have knocked the Ford product? I still stand by my ascertion that GM are in a good position, insofar as the US govt protecting their investment. I still think Ford will be in the queue sometime in the near future. How that equates to slander I have no idea.

Someone said GM didn't have a plan, so I produced a link; anyone would have to draw a long bow in calling that slanderous, one eyed and blinkered. On the contrary it is informational... no ambiguity, no opinion, just fact and nothing to do with defaming Ford.

Is it that I haven't capitulated my independent thinking and until I do I can't get into the Arnotts Biscuit Gang?

PS. BossXR8 I love my coupe, I liked my S Pack, I loved driving the GTHO3 when I could, I even liked my escort. The Taurus was a problem child though. I didn't much like the various Holden 5.0, I liked my Torana XU1, I delighted in the undisciplined VL Turbo. I really liked my Nissan GT-R, I don't like my Megane. I'm toying with idea of the Falcon V8 as my next car if my friendly Ford dealer principal neighbour can do a good deal and tart it up a bit; but if it's means losing my sense of humour and perspective.......

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

So march 31st is D-Day for GM? How long till we find out if they will be bailed out or not? The next day or weeks afterwards?

I wonder if the oil companies will allow GM (the largest carmaker on the planet) go into bankruptcy.

I reckon a good chunk of their profits would come from cars made by GM...

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

Been flogging them off cheap as chips Wally so affordability ain't to much of an issue to most.

: Yeah I know, but I couldn't resist a little needling. I reckon I might get $2k for the trade-in _2: .

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Wally

I do drive a V8 VE, but who wouldn't if they could afford it?

I drive a VE V8 for work and I have a choice. (Calais V, banged on about it elsewhere won't now) However the choice is that or an Aurion. At least the Holden is RWD and the 6.0 is quite good. If I could have a G6ET or an XR8 it would be gone in a heartbeat.

Back to the topic

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Wally

I still stand by my ascertion that GM are in a good position, insofar as the US govt protecting their investment. I still think Ford will be in the queue sometime in the near future. How that equates to slander I have no idea.

Someone said GM didn't have a plan, so I produced a link; anyone would have to draw a long bow in calling that slanderous, one eyed and blinkered. On the contrary it is informational... no ambiguity, no opinion, just fact and nothing to do with defaming Ford.

Is it that I haven't capitulated my independent thinking and until I do I can't get into the Arnotts Biscuit Gang?

Damn that's reassuring :

Slightly off topic -

The US government is protecting GM, How? By printing money hand over fist, that's how. It's protecting almost every business who asks for assistance. How? By printing money, that's how. What do you think will happen if they continue to print money? I believe the Zimbabwe government is in the habit of printing money - a loaf of bread costs $100,000 or more.

No government bailout is going to make any difference to the GFC until the issue of the $1.4 quadrillion of derivatives obligations by the world's banks is addressed.

Back to the topic.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

The US government is protecting GM, How? By printing money hand over fist, that's how. It's protecting almost every business who asks for assistance. How? By printing money, that's how.

Not quite, I thought that too until I heard it explained by a so called media finance expert. Apparently the loans are funded by the world banks (Rothschild’s and the like) but secured by US Treasury bonds. If this is not right please let me know, but this was my understanding anyway.

[Wally]

Correct. The Chinese, Emirates and Russians are buying the bonds, with Hillary twisting their arms.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Wally

Correct. The Chinese, Emirates and Russians are buying the bonds, with Hillary twisting their arms.

Apparently the Chinese own 50% of it.

[baboon]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Not quite, I thought that too until I heard it explained by a so called media finance expert. Apparently the loans are funded by the world banks (Rothschild’s and the like) but secured by US Treasury bonds. If this is not right please let me know, but this was my understanding anyway.

China, UK, saudi, japanese etc. are lending the US all this bailout money. The money has to be payed back by the US. The US have to pay interest on the money they borrow, just like when you take out a house loan from the bank.

Now when other countries realize the US cannot payback the money, they stop lending to them. This is similar to someone who cannot make their house repayments to the bank. Hence they default on the loan and the lenders repossess the assets (or the house).

Now, Americas solution is to print there way out of this mess. The more money supply the less value each dollar is worth. The countries that lent the money to the US, now have these assets that are decreasing in value everyday. They try to sell these assets at fire sale prices, but nobody but the US government will buy them. Bugger that.