November 2019 Car sales figures- holden out of top 10 again

[Franco Cozzo]

Ford has no entry level product anymore - my entry into the brand was a new Fiesta CL a decade ago for $18K DA

Then followed by a LV TDCI Focus run out for $26K DA

Now - $30K+ to get into a new Ford.

Right at a time where the economy is soft too.

What's the entry level Kia and Hyundai worth? Picanto is sub $20K DA

[Sprintey]

Good point Franco, I was off on a tangent and came across what Ford did when faced with the shambles of the economy in 1932:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RB3z1er9Sw

They put the single casting V8 in their cars and provided affordable performance! Great doco btw, well worth the time to watch.

[Brazen]

Honestly Ford should chuck the 5.0 in the Ranger, affordable practical performance

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Honestly Ford should chuck the 5.0 in the Ranger, affordable practical performance

I'd consider it if they came with something like 2L/2.3L Ecoboost - diesel is too slow.

I can understand the practicality behind having one of these 'do everything' vehicles but the lack of power is a killer for me.

[janddbone]

I hired a new Camry in May. It did nothing wrong and looks a million dollars compared to the old ones. However it had no standout points and I actually found the general interior materials quality disappointing.

[janddbone]

i30/Cerato share an absolute shipload of parts and tech and platform. I would pretty much put that at No1 over Hilux.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Squalo

Old people love Camrys.

Speaking for ya self are ya?

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

The future looks bleak for Holden. only re-badged Daewoos.

As stated elsewhere...it's been nearly 20 years.

I believe only the Trax is built in Korea now, and even then that would be a US design...hardly "only re-badged Daewoos"

Commodore - Opel (built in Germany)
Equinox - GM US (built in Mexico)
Colorado/Trailblazer GM US (built in Thailand)
Astra - Opel (built in UK)
Acadia - GM US (built in US)

Astra Sedan is still on the website and our versions built in Korea, but I think they stopped production there back in May 2018 (!)

Also I just realised how much their range has shrunk.

[Dr Smith]

Could the standard 5 year warranty (and longer on some cars) mean people don't feel drawn to changing over in 3 years and that time lag is now catching up.

Plus the tougher rules on reporting vehicle sales means less "demo" sales and other shenanigans while the biggest factor is our economy and our populations pessimism of it's state, whether justified or not.

And when you look at your utility bills today and compare them to 2 years ago you get an ulcer. My gas bill is triple my electricity bill and even though I have solar and actaully used wall heaters through the house instead of our gas central heater, it's money most of us are having to find from a fixed income.

[csv8]

Vormund From Wikepedia. "Sales of the BK Astra commenced in November 2016. Initially slow with manual transmission being the only option, sales have picked up with the introduction of an automatic transmission, as well as sedan and wagon variants, in 2017. As of June 2018, Holden announced that the best-selling Astra Sedan variant would be removed from sale due to ongoing supply issues from the GM Korea plant, and discontinue the Astra Wagon variant due to slow sales. Both variants will still appear on their website until stock is exhausted."

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by csv8

Vormund From Wikepedia. "Sales of the BK Astra commenced in November 2016. Initially slow with manual transmission being the only option, sales have picked up with the introduction of an automatic transmission, as well as sedan and wagon variants, in 2017. As of June 2018, Holden announced that the best-selling Astra Sedan variant would be removed from sale due to ongoing supply issues from the GM Korea plant, and discontinue the Astra Wagon variant due to slow sales. Both variants will still appear on their website until stock is exhausted."

Thanks CSV8. Wow these cars are just rotting away on dealer lots. Lol at "best-selling" if they still have cars 18 months later.

I think John Cadogen is right; Holden are done in 2020.

[hayseed]

This article says there are 60 Brands of cars sold in Australia..

https://www.fcai.com.au/news/index/view/news/597

Yet this articles Mentions 47 brands report their Sales..

https://www.caradvice.com.au/811764/...sales-results/


Can anyone provide link/s to the 2 separate lists...???
or perhaps which (13)Brands Don't report their Sales??

It's Piqued My curiousity & Google's not much help.

Or It may be My limited research skills!!

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Vormund

As stated elsewhere...it's been nearly 20 years.

I believe only the Trax is built in Korea now, and even then that would be a US design...hardly "only re-badged Daewoos"

Commodore - Opel (built in Germany)
Equinox - GM US (built in Mexico)
Colorado/Trailblazer GM US (built in Thailand)
Astra - Opel (built in UK)
Acadia - GM US (built in US)

Astra Sedan is still on the website and our versions built in Korea, but I think they stopped production there back in May 2018 (!)

Also I just realised how much their range has shrunk.

You are correct only the Trax is a Dewoo now, I might have been stirring.

Korean built - Gunsen
GM Gunsan produce(d):
Chevrolet Cruze
Chevrolet Orlando
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-fa...-gunsan-plant/

GM Bupyeong Produce:
Chevrolet Aveo
Chevrolet Trax
Chevrolet Malibu
Chevrolet Captiva
Buick Encore
Opel Mokka
Vauxhall Mokka
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-fa...upyeong-plant/
__________________

Thing is where are the future Holdens coming from? not Korea & not PSA

[Bossxr8]

Mazda followed Ford's lead and priced the 3 around the mid 20's. Now it's not even in the top 10 sales when it was top 3 for ages with the previous model.

Are people bulking at the price, or hating the way the hatch looks? That rear quarter is hideous.

Mazda have slipped badly of late.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Mazda followed Ford's lead and priced the 3 around the mid 20's. Now it's not even in the top 10 sales when it was top 3 for ages with the previous model.

Are people bulking at the price, or hating the way the hatch looks? That rear quarter is hideous.

Mazda have slipped badly of late.

I would say its pricing. I dont know many people that want to pay 25k plus for a hatchback unless its something like a GTI or RS.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Mazda followed Ford's lead and priced the 3 around the mid 20's. Now it's not even in the top 10 sales when it was top 3 for ages with the previous model.

Are people bulking at the price, or hating the way the hatch looks? That rear quarter is hideous.

Mazda have slipped badly of late.

They also took the 3 hatch and gave it more polarising rear styling.

And ditched rear IRS for a more simple suspension, so took out some of the zoom-zoom. Sales fell.

Could any of the 'repositioning' - pricing things higher - be a result of no domestic manufacturers any more?

[Adamz Ghia]

Mazda took one of the most stylish small cars in the previous 3 and completely butchered it with the new one. The front is ok but the side profile is just wrong and the rear looks like is trying to be an SUV and a hatch at the same time and failing miserably.

They need a performance model as well. They have a rich history in that regard and they’ve thrown it away.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Mazda took one of the most stylish small cars in the previous 3 and completely butchered it with the new one. The front is ok but the side profile is just wrong and the rear looks like is trying to be an SUV and a hatch at the same time and failing miserably.

They need a performance model as well. They have a rich history in that regard and they’ve thrown it away.

Tell you what Mazda went from making fun little cars to laggy ****boxes - we had a 2016 Mazda 6 as a company car and I hated driving that thing, it was terrible to drive, the throttle was laggy as and mapped for Grandma to drive to Bingo and back.

Had to have it in sport mode to improve it to make it bearable, but then it wouldn't use 5th and 6th gears on the highway, it would stay in 4th, if you manually put it into 6th, it would kick back to 4th when you put it back in D.

I had to confirm I was driving a Mazda because it was a complete 180 to the usual cars they used to make, good riddance when it got stacked and written off.

I've driven a tonne of Mazda's, from the older 323's, to the 3s and the 6s and the 2016 variant of the Mazda 6 is an absolute shocker, I couldn't believe it.

I'm with you on the looks on the new Mazda 3 - step backwards big time.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Could any of the 'repositioning' - pricing things higher - be a result of no domestic manufacturers any more?

Absolutely, when there is no bargain basement new XR6 Falcon for low $30K mark its easier to sell $30K Focus, Mazda 3 and other overpriced rubbish.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

They also took the 3 hatch and gave it more polarising rear styling.

And ditched rear IRS for a more simple suspension, so took out some of the zoom-zoom. Sales fell.

Could any of the 'repositioning' - pricing things higher - be a result of no domestic manufacturers any more?

More a confirmation that making profit on $19,990 drive away is pretty much impossible. The shift up in price for 3, Focus, Corolla etc can only be due to realistic profit margins imo.

No wonder Kia sales are improving, they are willing to sell for minimal profits to move numbers, ie the old GM approach. Even their Australian ceo admitted that within 2 years they won't be making profits on passsenger vehicles, and need to sell more higher priced SUV's to make money on.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

More a confirmation that making profit on $19,990 drive away is pretty much impossible. The shift up in price for 3, Focus, Corolla etc can only be due to realistic profit margins imo.

No wonder Kia sales are improving, they are willing to sell for minimal profits to move numbers, ie the old GM approach. Even their Australian ceo admitted that within 2 years they won't be making profits on passsenger vehicles, and need to sell more higher priced SUV's to make money on.

Which in turn could open the door to Chinese brands taking over lower priced value sales..

Maybe it's time for Ford to try cheap Chinese Escort and Territory here.....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Maybe it's time for Ford to try cheap Chinese Escort and Territory here.....

No RHD.

They might work if you want to drive a car that feels like a 10 year old tin can right off the showroom floor. They are pretty average things to drive. I'd rather they didn't go down that path. The current Ecosport is bad enough.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

No RHD.

They might work if you want to drive a car that feels like a 10 year old tin can right off the showroom floor. They are pretty average things to drive. I'd rather they didn't go down that path. The current Ecosport is bad enough.

So like a Kia or Hiandai then....

[janddbone]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So like a Kia or Hiandai then....

Absolute BS

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by janddbone

Absolute BS

Not at all, this is is the 2019 Escort interior he was down playing as a 10 year old car
to me it's on the same lever as a Kia/Hyundai and plenty in this country would buy it.
Especially if they sold it around $18K-$20K

[Poetic Justice]

Most manufacturers are going away from the entry point cars because of profitability. Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla both examples of the shift.

Even Hyundai, to a lesser extent, when the PD i30 came to the market it went from a $20k auto car to a $25k car.

Hyundai Accent is another... it's not that there's not cars that could be sold in Australia being built somewhere else around the world - they just can't make a business case for them to get to the market at the mid-high teens price point that they would need to be at.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

More a confirmation that making profit on $19,990 drive away is pretty much impossible. The shift up in price for 3, Focus, Corolla etc can only be due to realistic profit margins imo.

No wonder Kia sales are improving, they are willing to sell for minimal profits to move numbers, ie the old GM approach. Even their Australian ceo admitted that within 2 years they won't be making profits on passsenger vehicles, and need to sell more higher priced SUV's to make money on.

Interesting perspective, I guess you are closer to the industry than I am. Was always under the impression a car could be made for about 7K, so any sale had a decent amount of profit even after dealer's rent/wages/etcetc. Maybe that's the dealer making a profit at 19990? Like a fuel station getting 1c or 2c on the fuel price as their margin?

New Yaris is going to land much closer to 20 or above it too.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Absolutely, when there is no bargain basement new XR6 Falcon for low $30K mark its easier to sell $30K Focus, Mazda 3 and other overpriced rubbish.

And I'll join those not buying a 30K Focus or Mazda3 or Corolla and we see their numbers fall. Now, a low 30's FGX on the other hand...

Oh yeah, slightly off track, I tried out the tray in FGX ute, could fit boards just past 7 foot on the diagonal (7'2, maybe 7'3" max??), so if you mainly surf shortboards, lock up tray ute could be good. If you put a canopy on it, you could probably go slightly longer again by going diagonally and up, which you might have needed to do with all the big swell in Vic this week. If you have longboards, it won't stow them so you'll need a Kombi or pristine AU1 wagon.

My kids are grown up, a 2016 victory gold FGX XR6 ute could be just the ticket to age gracefully with...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not at all, this is is the 2019 Escort interior he was down playing as a 10 year old car
to me it's on the same lever as a Kia/Hyundai and plenty in this country would buy it.
Especially if they sold it around $18K-$20K


image

I'd forgotten about the Escort mid cycle update. It's mostly all done in China now ,so we didn't see many of them here. It brought the interior forward 10 years. The older versions were old as the hills by they time they were replaced with the MCE. They were really outdated inside.

It's still an old Fiesta underneath though. Which is still probably a better drivers chassis than a Hyundai or Kia. But they are still pretty cheap and nasty, which is fine in the Chinese market. The competitors are worse. They just want ride comfort and foot room for the rear seat passengers. Since so many are chaffeur driven.

It's the same old problem of not enough potential sales to justify RHD production though.

[au2000]

do we have any of the sales numbers for Ford models in November yet?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd forgotten about the Escort mid cycle update. It's mostly all done in China now ,so we didn't see many of them here. It brought the interior forward 10 years. The older versions were old as the hills by they time they were replaced with the MCE. They were really outdated inside.

It's still an old Focus underneath though. Which is still probably a better drivers chassis than a Hyundai or Kia. But they are still pretty cheap and nasty, which is fine in the Chinese market. The competitors are worse. They just want ride comfort and foot room for the rear seat passengers. Since so many are chaffeur driven.

It's the same old problem of not enough potential sales to justify RHD production though.

The funny part was that Focus was developed by FAP, sure it was a budget car
but gosh, they stretched the engineering a long way compared to Ford Europe,
they also gave the thing better proportions than the previous Focus thanks to longer WB.
Also, not exactly a ten year old car as the interior was modest but fresh and dare I say,
better than the first Ecosport Ford trotted out here....

The business plan only falls over because Ford can't be f'ed to at least try, fail before starting.
I'm optimistic that with FAP's eng brief, they probably RHD preserved Taurus and Escort,
so while not developed as RHD, id be willing to bet they'd be a lot easier to DEV as RHD
than Euro or American Ford, the guys just seem to think on a higher intellectual plain
than other COEs.....Had they run the 2011 Focus, that PD6S proto would have ended up
where it belonged at the bottom of the Yarra river...