Ford Announces New Engine Direction

[herbs]

Was there this much kerfuffle when 9/11 happened? Bloody hell some people need to get over it. I like my inline 6, but change happens, people should know that by now.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by heljas

ford australia are already testing the v6 engine in the ORION

and from what i have been told it is going well to bloody well in comparison to the current I6 we have now

just my 2C worth on this toppic

jason

Please, Ford have enough issues with getting the Orion right as is, let alone worrying about that just yet.

I got to about page 10 of this thread.

IMO, from a purists and enthusiasts POV, disappointing. The Barra is the best engine this country has produced. It plays so many roles so well.

But from a management POV, and a global POV, it unfortunately makes perfect sense.

I dont like it, actually I hate it, but what can you do. Ive said this in every thread about this topic, but I will do everything I can to own one of the last I6T F6's.

And the end of the day, Torque talks, and V6's act like they have had their tongue cut out.

Is this proposed V6 the same as the current Mondeo ST220? If so thats a good engine.......in a Mondeo. Gearing can only mask so much, and mass is hard to disguise.

[asusdragon]

Originally Posted by herbs

Was there this much kerfuffle when 9/11 happened? Bloody hell some people need to get over it. I like my inline 6, but change happens, people should know that by now.

yeah but we can argue it all we like

[VeloXR6]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

More powerful?!

The 3.7L V6 will have 206kw... thats 16 more than the Barra 190... from 300cc less capacity..

Yes it has less torque but it seems the 3.7 will have close on 370Nm.. thats not a lot less anyway... again from less capacity and more efficiency!

K.... show me a an I6 turbo / V6 that will match a Porsche 911 Turbo .... let alone a Subaru WRX 4Cyl HO Turbo

[XAGSV8]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

More powerful?!

The 3.7L V6 will have 206kw... thats 16 more than the Barra 190... from 300cc less capacity..

Yes it has less torque but it seems the 3.7 will have close on 370Nm.. thats not a lot less anyway... again from less capacity and more efficiency!

Funny you say that as I was thinking what if the V6 was a 4.0 as the hidden issue with some people could be the capacity does matter thing?

[VeloXR6]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Please, Ford have enough issues with getting the Orion right as is, let alone worrying about that just yet.

I got to about page 10 of this thread.

IMO, from a purists and enthusiasts POV, disappointingly. The Barra is the best engine this country has produced. It plays so many roles so well.

But from a management POV, and a global POV, it unfortunately makes perfect sense.

I dont like it, actually I hate it, but what can you do. Ive said this in every thread about this topic, but I will do everything I can to own one of the last I6T F6's.

And the end of the day, Torque talks, and V6's act like they have had their tongue cut out.

Is this proposed V6 the same as the current Mondeo ST220? If so thats a good engine.......in a Mondeo. Gearing can only mask so much, and mass is hard to disguise.

Yeah - V6's are like sewing machines on drugs....

lots of noise - no action..

[Mark351]

So much misinformation in this thread, it's horrible.

Ford WILL NOT just retrench 600 when production stops in 2010. Put your brains into gear people.

In 3 years, people will retire - not just some of the 600, people in areas like the stamping plant which isn't closing. Ford also TRAIN people, if you've ever done a tour of the Geelong plant and heard the tour guides talk, they will explain people get opportunities to get training, not just when jobs are moving on, but any time. What do you think the people who were replaced by robots in the stamping plant did? They retired, or got other jobs either within or outside Ford.

You've also read articles about the $$ investment in Product Development in Geelong. Who knows what other jobs that could potentially create?

When Mitsu closed their engine plant, they just closed it. Ford has given advanced warning, and I'm sure all of those workers won't be treated poorly at all.

V6 or I6, it stays a Falcon. Commodore didn't change names for an engine config change, nor should Falcon.

It is definitely a sound business decision, even if it upsets a few enthusiasts. The average Joe doesn't even know the difference between V6 and I6, and some of the motoring reporters who covered the initial murmerings of this announcement didn't seem to know either!

Who knows, maybe my next locally built Ford will be a Duratorq (not Duratec) powered vehicle - I can hope anyway. All this talk about torque and the diesels have it in spades.

[Perana]

The Figures are higher in the rev range of course.. PEAK torque is about 1000rpm up from memory.. but i expect those figures to change anyway as noted below.

Originally Posted by Paxton

Somewhat. Try VL.

VN had the Buic.

Perana; Expect the 3.7 to have modifications to get it to compare to the Falcon's I6. I expect 210 Kilowatts, and ~390 Nm. With lower fuel consumption, and Direct Injection, Ford are about to step right into the 21st century.

Yeah the figures I have quoted are loosely based on the current non DI 3.5 so I expect it to be even better really.. Direct Injection seems to really boost bottom end torque too.

[Van D]

Originally Posted by ef_classic

Time will tell.

Mate, time already has. You can still pick up GS's for a descent price, and the XR6T is nothing on the GTHO? I mean, you could have picked a phoon at least.
Regular XY GT's still don't reach anywhere near the cost of a GTHO either.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by asus_dragonorb

yeah i get bout 12.5 on my BA xt couldnt really give a s*** , hey if i dont spend it on my car i will spend it on something else, cant take it to the grave with you, but was just giving that as an example

Most people on here would agree with you, but the majority of Australia wouldnt, they see an extra few cents at the bowser as a reason to go into shock horror and that the extra few dollars a week would cause them to lose a house. Of course, there are still a lot of people who are losing out a great deal due to rising fuel prices, but Ford no doubt have had this reason contribute to making their decision, along with the others of saving money and utilising resources.

[asusdragon]

[QUOTE=popinfresh]Sorry, I missed the part where 3.5L was bigger than 4.0?
QUOTE]


all i was going at, was that with holden v8 engine which are american for them to get more power that go more cube, 5l - 5.7l - 6l all in a matter of a few years

[VeloXR6]

Originally Posted by popinfresh

Sorry, I missed the part where 3.5L was bigger than 4.0?



Ford are losing money more than anything else, let alone making a good profit.



So you'd rather keep your I6 for 10-20 more years until Ford Aus goes under than make a change and keep the blue oval going for (hopefully) many more years?

I am in business too ... product matters, if your product is irrelevant, so are you.

go figure.

[Perana]

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

I am in business too ... product matters, if your product is irrelevant, so are you.

go figure.

Ask any non enthusiast what they'd prefer.. and they'd say the one that is cheaper to run... Which is just one reason for Duratec engined falcons

[Van D]

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

I am in business too ... product matters, if your product is irrelevant, so are you.

go figure.

And the V6 is a LOT more relevant to the future of Ford Aus than the I6 is.

Yeah purists and enthusiasts like us on these boards might care, but 99% of the buying public don't. In fact, if Ford market the V6 right, it could be a GREAT move.

Lets hope the marketing department gets a makeover too.

[asusdragon]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Most people on here would agree with you, but the majority of Australia wouldnt, they see an extra few cents at the bowser as a reason to go into shock horror and that the extra few dollars a week would cause them to lose a house. Of course, there are still a lot of people who are losing out a great deal due to rising fuel prices, but Ford no doubt have had this reason contribute to making their decision, along with the others of saving money and utilising resources.

now with this thinking, ford put a v6 in the falcon most ppl will not know the difference, ford will still see lower sales due to the falcon - heavy fuel user name i dont know if i see it being all that great maybe if they did hate to say it drop the falcon name and use a new one it might better to promote this new engine

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by DeathXR

V6 or I6, it stays a Falcon. Commodore didn't change names for an engine config change, nor should Falcon.


Who knows, maybe my next locally built Ford will be a Duratorq (not Duratec) powered vehicle - I can hope anyway. All this talk about torque and the diesels have it in spades.

If thats true, then we would have FWD falcons.

Also, you expect everyone to want a diesel?

Its seems to be a necessary crap decision.

[VeloXR6]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Ask any non enthusiast what they'd prefer.. and they'd say the one that is cheaper to run... Which is just one reason for Duratec engined falcons

I am an enthusiest too - this why am am up bitching about the demise of the I6 at 10pm ....

But truth be known, If ford say - your falcon is now being powered by a POS V6 then I have look around - because the V6 is not supporting the best of Australian Industry - which I was when I purchased I6's ....

[VeloXR6]

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

I am an enthusiest too - this why am am up bitching about the demise of the I6 at 10pm ....

But truth be known, If ford say - your falcon is now being powered by a POS V6 then I have look around - because the V6 is not supporting the best of Australian Industry - which I was when I purchased I6's ....

I cant spell for sh** though

[Perana]

Originally Posted by Polyal

If thats true, then we would have FWD falcons.

Also, you expect everyone to want a diesel?

Its seems to be a necessary crap decision.

Falcon will never be FWD... if it were to be FWD it would be replaced by Mondeo

If ford say - your falcon is now being powered by a POS V6 then I have look around - because the V6 is not supporting the best of Australian Industry - which I was when I purchased I6's ...

But is it a POS... how do you know.. have you driven a Duratec engined car.. doubt it.. To get the closest to what we get you would have to drive the Jag S-type V6.. but even then we will have 700cc capacity and i would say direct injection.. 2 huge improvements on top of an already decent engine...

Also th Duratec 35 engine was in the Wards Top 10 engines of the year. The Falcon I6 never made it there...

[VeloXR6]

Originally Posted by DeathXR

Who knows, maybe my next locally built Ford will be a Duratorq (not Duratec) powered vehicle - I can hope anyway. All this talk about torque and the diesels have it in spades.

Yeah for about 400 RPM per gear - you need a 10 speed gearbox to make it worthwhile..

OK ... so they are better now with the 6 speed gearbox, but they dont compare to the torque of a barra 6 at full noise....

[Van D]

Originally Posted by asus_dragonorb

all i was going at, was that with holden v8 engine which are american for them to get more power that go more cube, 5l - 5.7l - 6l all in a matter of a few years

I suggest you read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cyclone_engine and actually see what the engine is about.

I thought the new turbo heads would be a fan of a twin turbo "producing 430 hp (321 kW) and 400 ft·lbf (542 N·m) of torque. The TwinForce 3.5L V6 is intended to deliver the performance (on demand) of a typical large displacement 6.0 L-class V8, with the normal driving (highway) fuel efficiency of a 3.0 L to 4.0 L class V6."

And this is a relatively new engine, not something with 40 odd years of refining.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Falcon will never be FWD... if it were to be FWD it would be replaced by Mondeo

That was not my point. My point was that apparently the average Joe doesn't care if its I6 or V6. So how do you justify having it RWD? Thats a bigger cost save to make it FWD. Do people care?

[Van D]

Originally Posted by asus_dragonorb

now with this thinking, ford put a v6 in the falcon most ppl will not know the difference, ford will still see lower sales due to the falcon - heavy fuel user name i dont know if i see it being all that great maybe if they did hate to say it drop the falcon name and use a new one it might better to promote this new engine

Well this is where Ford Aus is REALLY going to have to pull the finger out. No more crap advertising and cheesey ads. They really need to market this engine for what it is, a way forward.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

I am an enthusiest too - this why am am up bitching about the demise of the I6 at 10pm ....

But truth be known, If ford say - your falcon is now being powered by a POS V6 then I have look around - because the V6 is not supporting the best of Australian Industry - which I was when I purchased I6's ....

Have you driven the V6? If so, you can say it is a POS. Unless you have been to the USA, and hired one, then I think it is safe to say, you have not, and therefore have no grounds to say that it is crap (or in your words, a POS). I, have not, however I know that Ford wouldn't have won awards for a POS engine. The Wheezotech isn't even a POS (and I have driven more than one of them) but it isn't great.

If you expect the Duratech to be crappy, rough and coarse, go and Test an Aurion, Lexus GS350/RX350, or a Maxima. They have engines that are in the same league as the Duratech. Even better, wait until January, and test the CX-9. It has the same (unmodified) engine that Falcon will have come 2010. Then say that the engine is a POS. I will bet you my Territory that the reviews are positive.

Enough on this from me Tonight. Once the shock has set in, it won't seem as bad. Ford will survive, and the Falcon will too. It will still be a great car, just without the great, fantastic, sensational (etc) I6 that it has always had.

Andrew.

[chich]

There is a valuable lesson to be learnt with the current situation - adapt or die. This decision should've been made 10yrs ago, not now where Ford Australia - and more importantly - Ford HO is bleeding money left, right & centre.

The I6 has always been behind the 8 ball and as such, was always on borrowed time. Case in point - it only received a twin cam head 3 years ago where the rest of the world was using the technology milleniums ago. It is a good engine, its definitely come a long way but its time to put it the thing to rest and work towards something better. If Nissan can make the decision to drop one of the worlds best I6 engines - the RB26DETT - then i'm sure we can all swallow the bitter pill and sacrifice a 40 year old engine to save our local operation all together..

[Perana]

Originally Posted by Polyal

That was not my point. My point was that apparently the average Joe doesn't care if its I6 or V6. So how do you justify having it RWD? Thats a bigger cost save to make it FWD. Do people care?

Short answer is no... an Average joe wouldn't care.. just look at Camry/Aurion sales!

Re-engineering falcon for FWD would be a massive expense.. not just in engineering but re-tooling the plant too.

[VeloXR6]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Have you driven the V6? If so, you can say it is a POS. Unless you have been to the USA, and hired one, then I think it is safe to say, you have not, and therefore have no grounds to say that it is crap (or in your words, a POS). I, have not, however I know that Ford wouldn't have won awards for a POS engine. The Wheezotech isn't even a POS (and I have driven more than one of them) but it isn't great.

If you expect the Duratech to be crappy, rough and coarse, go and Test an Aurion, Lexus GS350/RX350, or a Maxima. They have engines that are in the same league as the Duratech. Even better, wait until January, and test the CX-9. It has the same (unmodified) engine that Falcon will have come 2010. Then say that the engine is a POS. I will bet you my Territory that the reviews are positive.

Enough on this from me Tonight. Once the shock has set in, it won't seem as bad. Ford will survive, and the Falcon will too. It will still be a great car, just without the great, fantastic, sensational (etc) I6 that it has always had.

Andrew.

Thanks for your assumption, but I do go to the US regularly and have hired Mustangs .... they have not got an a**hoe of a chance on the BA engine - actually, thier v8's probably would struggle against the BA I6....
Seriously - have YOU actually been to the US yourself ??? otherwise you might know how sh&^t US cars actually are and would be very scared at what we are looking forward to here ....

[RIPGMH]

From what I've read the major reasoning for the change was due to emissions compliance etc, would everyone be so supportive if they were phasing out the V8 due to a poor business case for improving its emissions? The current turbo six is without doubt the greatest engine this country has produced, and without any clear indication of whats its replacement will be I think true enthusiasts should be taking a harder line against it much like the V8's till 98 campaign taken to holden in the 80's.

[asusdragon]

Originally Posted by popinfresh

Well this is where Ford Aus is REALLY going to have to pull the finger out. No more crap advertising and cheesey ads. They really need to market this engine for what it is, a way forward.

yeah alot, i got mates in the car trade over here used cars mainly and for them selling a falcon with current fuel price is pretty hard, because of the repution falcon has got over the years, my only point is maybe to drop the falcon name maybe they should have waiting with the orion name for the new cars with these v6 engines and just gone "B"whatever for the next falcon

i know alot ppl would not like this idea but this is my 2cents to it all and aleast they would be taking away from the falcon heritage

[phillyc]

We have traded the I6 engine and in return Ford Aus has been given the RWD development of all Fords large cars! ie Mustang, Crown Vic, Falcon, Fairlane, Territorry etc

As much as I love the I6 engine, sounds like a fantastic deal for Australia!

PS As for unreleased model that may become the third model line. Most probably the Focus derived small SUV (S-Max?). This will provide the opportunity for the engine plant employees to stay with Ford.