Vfacts September 2019

[anobserver]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

The sinking of Mazda 3 continues, out of top 10 with 1700 sales. CX30 looking like wise product development

Also there is nothing in top 10 I would want to buy

The media scribblers all spout the same line that Mazda wants to go upmarket, presumably with the intent of increasing profits per sale. I think Ford went that way too, didnt they?

All well and good until the tapped out buyers stop buying. And the 3 mainly sold to private buyers, too. So no fleet purchases backstopping sales.

Much as i like the pending cx30, sales may be weak because it will appeal to private buyers, who have too much debt to service as it is, the current housing dead cat bounce not withstanding.

[au2000]

[QUOTE=jpd80;6348251]

GM and Ford really don’t give a crap about our tiny RHD market. They only want buyers who are prepared to pay say, $8K more for an Ecosport than a Picanto Sport,,,, nothing underscores the disconnect from our market more than that, it’s bloody insane.

/QUOTE]


This is exactly right, this mentality plus the head in the sand mentality that Ford adopts to issues are the issue, sure you want to start acting like a upmarket supplier with perceived upmarket models, then behave the same when it comes to customer service and product support.. Comments on Fords Facebook page show this when people reference issues they have had, Fords only reply is to comment "feel free to contact customer support so we can help resolve your issues" , that line is even funnier when the complaint relates to lack of replies from ford customer support

[prydey]

People want to talk about reality. The reality is Australia is a small island in the middle of the Pacific and we are right hand drive which is a the lesser of the two options by some way.

Ford, and no doubt GM would rather not sell cars/vehicles here at all if they can't make a reasonable business case. Why drop prices just to keep some forum members happy? If they are sending a shipment of cars here, and they all sell, then good for them. What they sell for and whether profit was made is just speculation unless you are in Ford management and have the figures.

With the end of local production many predicted Ford would slide out of the top 10. 3 years on and they are always around 5th, give or take.

Will it impact dealerships and jobs? Possibly, but that's life. That's the harsh reality.

Ask the question, why don't Ford drop the prices even though sales figures don't make good reading for those who like to over analyse vfacts every month. Ford wanting to appear 'premium' is a smokescreen. In my view, if they could sell for less and still be worth bringing the vehicles here, they would. The way I see it, lower pricing wouldn't guarantee an increase in sales. If you drop pricing and it fails to impact sales then it's very difficult to put the prices back up. Easier to set your own price and sell whatever you sell. Just my view. I work in a dying industry and many rival businesses dropped their pricing over the last decade to get the work in the doors. Most of them no longer exist. Dropping prices to increase volume doesn't always work.

The Australian auto market is one of the most saturated in the world.

[Franco Cozzo]

The price rise on the Focus is interesting, when I bought mine it was a mid spec w/turbo diesel engine and it was $26K DA

Now it's $30K + delivery for povvo spec? That's a big price rise.

Sounds like Ford is trying to chase VW in pricing - VW pricing but Ford quality?

[BENT_8]

The way I see it Ford is doing to its range what it did with Falcon and Territory, conveniently sabotaging it so that when they are no longer viable they can point the finger at the consumer and say, your fault, you didn't buy our product.

They'll still flog off Ranger's here because certain Aussie's will pay overs but even it has been heavily discounted in recent times to keep the numbers up.

I've got no doubt all the cars listed by JPD on the previous page are worth the asking price, but no one will buy them because its not a product or pricing issue, its a brand image problem brought about by treating this little island market with contempt for too long.

Take a look at the thread on what new Fords have been test driven, 6 weeks in and its not even made 2 pages and the majority of the replies are of people uninterested.
If they cant inspire the people on the biggest Ford forum in the market to go and look, what chance are they with the general populace.

Oh, and JPD, I wasn't looking at you when I wrote my previous post as its obvious you are just as disenchanted with their 'business model' as many others.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I do agree but Ford would have more development in their vehicles. Mitsubishis are quite simple cars.

You could say the same about Toyota in the price department. People keep buying them though.

If you look at the new Triton it's actually got plenty of features. Well priced. Good warranty. Good dealer network.

Considering these are fleet cars it would probably be a good buy.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by prydey

People want to talk about reality. The reality is Australia is a small island in the middle of the Pacific and we are right hand drive which is a the lesser of the two options by some way.



The Australian auto market is one of the most saturated in the world.

Exactly....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The way I see it Ford is doing to its range what it did with Falcon and Territory, conveniently sabotaging it so that when they are no longer viable they can point the finger at the consumer and say, your fault, you didn't buy our product.

They'll still flog off Ranger's here because certain Aussie's will pay overs but even it has been heavily discounted in recent times to keep the numbers up.

I've got no doubt all the cars listed by JPD on the previous page are worth the asking price, but no one will buy them because its not a product or pricing issue, its a brand image problem brought about by treating this little island market with contempt for too long.

Take a look at the thread on what new Fords have been test driven, 6 weeks in and its not even made 2 pages and the majority of the replies are of people uninterested.
If they cant inspire the people on the biggest Ford forum in the market to go and look, what chance are they with the general populace.

Oh, and JPD, I wasn't looking at you when I wrote my previous post as its obvious you are just as disenchanted with their 'business model' as many others.

All good mate, I realise that the vehicle on offer may not be worth the coin but yes, I think the vehicles are ebbing away because of lack of interest.

If Ford is not going to engage the market with products that sell in any decent numbers then it needs to look at niche buyers, the market is cooling in the US and it might be an opportunity to add products once considered off limits.

[Hawkeye84]

Don't be fooled by Mitsubishi numbers.
In September they put through 1500+ company cars.
I've also been told by dealers they were offloading ASXs to dealers for ridiculous prices ($5000 a car).
They are bleeding and stock is piling up from the docks.

General market is down roughly 8% YTD and Kia only 1 of 2 in the top 10 with positive growth at 2% (other one is Mitsubishi @ 0.1% +) - making it 56 months of consecutive growth for Kia. Not many automotive brands have achieved that. Stars are aligning for them and ot her brands are now watching them closely

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The way I see it Ford is doing to its range what it did with Falcon and Territory, conveniently sabotaging it so that when they are no longer viable they can point the finger at the consumer and say, your fault, you didn't buy our product.

They'll still flog off Ranger's here because certain Aussie's will pay overs but even it has been heavily discounted in recent times to keep the numbers up.

I've got no doubt all the cars listed by JPD on the previous page are worth the asking price, but no one will buy them because its not a product or pricing issue, its a brand image problem brought about by treating this little island market with contempt for too long.

Take a look at the thread on what new Fords have been test driven, 6 weeks in and its not even made 2 pages and the majority of the replies are of people uninterested.
If they cant inspire the people on the biggest Ford forum in the market to go and look, what chance are they with the general populace.

Oh, and JPD, I wasn't looking at you when I wrote my previous post as its obvious you are just as disenchanted with their 'business model' as many others.

Why would there be much interest here though? This was pretty much a Falcon/Territory forum. Mainly Falcon. Now its gone the enthusiasts here aren't suddenly going to be interested in 4wds or smaller cars unless they already were before. Some have converted over to Mustang but Ford probably has a better chance of attracting the general public than the remaining members on this forum.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by vztrt

If you look at the new Triton it's actually got plenty of features. Well priced. Good warranty. Good dealer network.

Considering these are fleet cars it would probably be a good buy.

My old man has one of the new triton GLS's, traded his PK Ranger in on it... Liked the new Ranger's but the extra $15k to get into an XLT just wasn't worth it...

Mitsi aren't trying to be the best, or most upmarket but the cars are robust and good value so they sell. Plus it seems every second Uber/Ride Share car around is a Bloody outlander... Add fleet and rental sales to that and there you go...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

My old man has one of the new triton GLS's, traded his PK Ranger in on it... Liked the new Ranger's but the extra $15k to get into an XLT just wasn't worth it...

Mitsi aren't trying to be the best, or most upmarket but the cars are robust and good value so they sell. Plus it seems every second Uber/Ride Share car around is a Bloody outlander... Add fleet and rental sales to that and there you go...

They're pretty good value. Current ranger platform is long in the tooth (features wise). So the new one will be interesting to see how it performs here.

Pretty sure ranger is going gangbusters globally so it would cause more headaches to the dealers for a sales drop. Like what we're seeing with Holden's demise currently.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Why would there be much interest here though? This was pretty much a Falcon/Territory forum. Mainly Falcon. Now its gone the enthusiasts here aren't suddenly going to be interested in 4wds or smaller cars unless they already were before. Some have converted over to Mustang but Ford probably has a better chance of attracting the general public than the remaining members on this forum.

Yeah, im not so sure, obviously there was always a strong emphasis on the local product but things like Endura were meant to entice the people who bought Territory and there have been plenty of Fiesta/Focus/Mondeo owners over the years pass through too.
I guess the point is, if they cant get the brand loyalists through the doors, what real chance do they have of getting Joe public who knows them as that company that burned its customers with dodgy transmissions etc. etc.

The facts speak for themselves, whilst some will suggest Ford are content losing market share for profit margins, they didn't bring Focus and Endura here for ****s and giggles so every unit additional unit sold would be welcomed if at the higher profit margin we're led to believe but they aren't they're dwindling.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye84

Don't be fooled by Mitsubishi numbers.
In September they put through 1500+ company cars.
I've also been told by dealers they were offloading ASXs to dealers for ridiculous prices ($5000 a car).
They are bleeding and stock is piling up from the docks.

General market is down roughly 8% YTD and Kia only 1 of 2 in the top 10 with positive growth at 2% (other one is Mitsubishi @ 0.1% +) - making it 56 months of consecutive growth for Kia. Not many automotive brands have achieved that. Stars are aligning for them and ot her brands are now watching them closely

$5k per car?? Would that even be possible?

You hear all the time that there is no profit in sales - it's the aftersales stuff that gets the money in, I can't see how a company can survive selling cars to dealers for $5k to be honest.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by jpd80

GM and Ford really don’t give a crap about our tiny RHD market.

Tell me again why we're sticking with RHD? i'll bet UK will be LHD before we even start considering change. We complain about US sticking with imperial measuring systems, but we're sticklers too, for RHD.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Tell me again why we're sticking with RHD? i'll bet UK will be LHD before we even start considering change. We complain about US sticking with imperial measuring systems, but we're sticklers too, for RHD.

Remember back in the 70-80-90 most of our imports (read dumping ground) came from RHD Japan.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Tell me again why we're sticking with RHD? i'll bet UK will be LHD before we even start considering change. We complain about US sticking with imperial measuring systems, but we're sticklers too, for RHD.

I’ll take that bet, their road system is just too huge to make the switch, it actually defines UK as being different to most other countries. Japan being RHD is a big plus for Asia and Australia

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Tell me again why we're sticking with RHD? i'll bet UK will be LHD before we even start considering change. We complain about US sticking with imperial measuring systems, but we're sticklers too, for RHD.

I would hate to think how much the switch would cost. Into the 10 figures with ease.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Tell me again why we're sticking with RHD? i'll bet UK will be LHD before we even start considering change. We complain about US sticking with imperial measuring systems, but we're sticklers too, for RHD.

Pretty simple really, such a change cannot be gradual, has to happen overnight so to speak , that means every single Aussie would have to scrap their daily cars overnight and replace them with a RHD car .. Logistical nightmare, will never happen, plus imagine the political damage to demand Aussies to buy a new RHD car and spend $$$ just for the sake of change?

Re triton sales, work has begun replacing their povo pack duel cab rangers with tritons, bean counter said it came down to purchase price and that they would keep doing so just as they did when they sold off the transits for Renault vans.

Similar thing at the boys work where they have stopped buying povo pack rangers and are now buying Isuzu 's instead.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Tell me again why we're sticking with RHD? i'll bet UK will be LHD before we even start considering change. We complain about US sticking with imperial measuring systems, but we're sticklers too, for RHD.

I'm not quite sure how anyone can compare changing a measurement system with the logistical nightmare of changing road sides

[Yellow_Festiva]

I think it was Samoa that most recently swapped over? I heard stories of busses getting a door cut into the opposite sides with an angle grinder and weeks of mayhem after swapping.

As long as they make RHD cars we will remain RHD.

Just imagine the billions it would cost to change!

Sent from my LG-M700 using Tapatalk

[Brazen]

With traffic tightening and travel speeds quite low due to strict speed enforcement. We probably hit peak need for handling improvements 10 years ago. A new car from 2009 is probably fine for what people need, hence the old Mitsubishi platforms do the job are cheap and are popular.

I think with how good cars already are, manufacturers will need to start buying market share to get results. There will be a race to the bottom eventually with prices, car makers are holding out as long as they can... but buyers are drying up who want to pay big prices for cars especially with the prospect of an EV evolution one day soon.

The market is changing, cars have changed, car enthusiasts are changing and buyers will be seeking value and features. Car makers are going to struggle in positioning themselves upmarket.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

I'm not quite sure how anyone can compare changing a measurement system with the logistical nightmare of changing road sides

Just spin them round 180 deg.

[jpd80]

I’m waiting for the monthly, “if we ignore Ranger sales, then Holden leads Ford in sales”

Maybe that person has finally realised the folly of that hypothesis.

Sure, Ford relies so heavily on Ranger but wasn’t that the point of developing it here,
to be better in ways that a actual buyers recognise and pay more for what they want.
Traditionally, Hilux used to own 4x4 pick up / cab chassis but now Ranger is right there.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I think it was Samoa that most recently swapped over? I heard stories of busses getting a door cut into the opposite sides with an angle grinder and weeks of mayhem after swapping.

Yes, it was Samoa. In Sep 2009.

Interesting that your reports of mayhem don't align with what was reported in the press, eg

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ing-sides.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rs-switch-left

Interestingly enough, Samoa changed from the right hand side to the left.

And here we are talking about moving the opposite way.

[stig_3754]

I remember going to the Bahamas for my honeymoon. As the place is a former British Colony, the roads are made for driving on the left hand side (and that is the current law), yet most of the cars (including newer cars for sale) are left hand drive. It was kind of bizarre but everyone seems to manage.

There is no way everyone here would be able to suddenly jump into a left hand drive vehicle the day if and when a move happens. It would just mean that from a certain point, every new car on sale would be left hand drive and the number of RHD vehicles will slowly decline.

As this country is such a nanny state however, this will never happen.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sure, Ford relies so heavily on Ranger but wasn’t that the point of developing it here,
to be better in ways that a actual buyers recognise and pay more for what they want.
Traditionally, Hilux used to own 4x4 pick up / cab chassis but now Ranger is right there.

But they're not, whilst Ranger has traded blows with Hilux this past year better than before, its also had numerous discounting events not to mention the sticker specials, people smashed the Hilux for being heavily discounted, yet its taken a similar approach to keep Ranger 'right there' and I believe Brazens post above is spot on, people want the best they can for their dollar.

10 years ago you bought a ute because you needed a ute, today people buy utes as allrounders.
Until recently the Triton has been the ugly duckling in the dual cab market and despite its much lower price, hasn't drawn much attention, the new model has brought it into the light and people are interested as it has looks and price on its side now.

I get Fords idea of positioning itself as a premium product, but I think their timing is poor as their target audience is looking for bargains.
Whilst I doubt the Ranger will ever fall far on the ladder, the reluctance of consumers to buy the rest of Fords range will see it as a brand slide.

[Hawkeye84]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

$5k per car?? Would that even be possible?

You hear all the time that there is no profit in sales - it's the aftersales stuff that gets the money in, I can't see how a company can survive selling cars to dealers for $5k to be honest.

Possible i guess if you got a boatload of them coming and targets that youve promised.

They would have thrown all of their sales incentives to this model to offload them at that price...

But thats what ive heard on the grapevine

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

But they're not, whilst Ranger has traded blows with Hilux this past year better than before, its also had numerous discounting events not to mention the sticker specials, people smashed the Hilux for being heavily discounted, yet its taken a similar approach to keep Ranger 'right there' and I believe Brazens post above is spot on, people want the best they can for their dollar.

10 years ago you bought a ute because you needed a ute, today people buy utes as allrounders.
Until recently the Triton has been the ugly duckling in the dual cab market and despite its much lower price, hasn't drawn much attention, the new model has brought it into the light and people are interested as it has looks and price on its side now.

I get Fords idea of positioning itself as a premium product, but I think their timing is poor as their target audience is looking for bargains.
Whilst I doubt the Ranger will ever fall far on the ladder, the reluctance of consumers to buy the rest of Fords range will see it as a brand slide.

We’ve been down the discount road before and shown that most of the so called discounts are on vehicles that Ford is trying to get rid of like manuals and 2WD Crew cabs price leaders. When you see RRP $64k for XLT4x4 crew cabs, you know wow, there’s a ton of room for discounts- triton is &34,990 at the moment. Know one thing about Ford discounts, they’re usually on loaded product to begin with, so only a bargain to devoted Ranger buyers.

I don’t think Ranger has been as heavily discounted as you think and that’s why the sales are still strong, it’s not like they’re thousands less than comparable Hilux, I think you’ll find Ranger is still more expensive. Again, there’s no guarantee that dropping prices would increase sales enough to make up for the profit Ford would be giving up but, I’d sure like them to try, even just to let Toyota know they still there

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

We’ve been down the discount road before and shown that most of the so called discounts are on vehicles that Ford is trying to get rid of like manuals and 2WD Crew cabs price leaders.

Many of those discounts may be units they're trying to get rid of, but the sales still count towards the monthly figures which is my point, without those discounted examples, the overall figures wouldn't be as great.

That $64k is for the Bi Turbo, the 3.2l XLT is $61krrp and discounted to $56k d.a. the Sport is sub $50k and virtually an XLT in all but name.
So you can get a Ranger sport which looks arguably better than the XLT for $11k under the XLT's rrp, that's a fair incentive to buy i'd say.