This Australian city wants to charge people to work on their cars

[aussiblue]

The thin edge of the wedge me thinks:

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...-on-their-cars

Residents of Victoria’s most populous region have to pay upwards of $400 just to work on their own vehicles, after a local government area imposed strict rules around private land use earlier this year.

The City of Casey in Melbourne’s south-east, which includes suburbs like Cranbourne and Berwick, requires residents to apply for a private land use permit if they’re planning to store more than two unregistered vehicles for up to 90 days, store long heavy vehicles, and even dismantle, repair or service vehicles.

Residents of the local government area must provide a site plan that illustrates where the activity will take place when filing for a permit.

Applying for a permit costs $150 (a non-refundable sum which the City of Casey retains even if the application is unsuccessful), while the permit fee for storing three or more unregistered vehicles, or working on your own vehicle is $250.

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This Australian city wants to charge people to work on their cars

According to the City of Casey’s Community Local Law, those without a permit mustn’t dismantle, repair or service vehicles on private land “in circumstances where the activity or use is detrimental to the amenity of the area in which the private land is located”.

While the City of Casey doesn’t have explicit guidelines on what it defines as being “detrimental to the amenity of the area”, the laws mean residents could be made to seek approval to do something as simple as an oil change, which could cost more than $400 before purchasing the relevant equipment.

To add another layer to the process, permit applications must be received 14 days before the date for which the permit is needed.

After lodging a permit application, the City of Casey advises residents it may contact residents if more information is needed, and that if the inspection is satisfactory, it’ll approve the permit within seven business days.

The City of Casey hasn’t explicitly detailed how much residents will be fined if they do not submit a permit application or carry out the activities without one.

[Citroënbender]

Yep, this will save the world. Big thumbs-down.

[Franco Cozzo]

This is hilarious - City of Casey which covers a couple of low socioeconomic areas of the south eastern suburbs of Melbourne, wants to introduce a permit scheme you have to pay for, to be able to:

- Work on your cars on your own property
- Store unregistered vehicles
- Store trucks

Residents of Victoria’s most populous region have to pay upwards of $400 just to work on their own vehicles, after a local government area imposed strict rules around private land use earlier this year.

The City of Casey in Melbourne’s south-east, which includes suburbs like Cranbourne and Berwick, requires residents to apply for a private land use permit if they’re planning to store more than two unregistered vehicles for up to 90 days, store long heavy vehicles, and even dismantle, repair or service vehicles.

Residents of the local government area must provide a site plan that illustrates where the activity will take place when filing for a permit.

Applying for a permit costs $150 (a non-refundable sum which the City of Casey retains even if the application is unsuccessful), while the permit fee for storing three or more unregistered vehicles, or working on your own vehicle is $250.

According to the City of Casey’s Community Local Law, those without a permit mustn’t dismantle, repair or service vehicles on private land “in circumstances where the activity or use is detrimental to the amenity of the area in which the private land is located”.

While the City of Casey doesn’t have explicit guidelines on what it defines as being “detrimental to the amenity of the area”, the laws mean residents could be made to seek approval to do something as simple as an oil change, which could cost more than $400 before purchasing the relevant equipment.

To add another layer to the process, permit applications must be received 14 days before the date for which the permit is needed.

After lodging a permit application, the City of Casey advises residents it may contact residents if more information is needed, and that if the inspection is satisfactory, it’ll approve the permit within seven business days.

The City of Casey hasn’t explicitly detailed how much residents will be fined if they do not submit a permit application or carry out the activities without one.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...-on-their-cars

I reckon they've identified that low socioeconomic communities tend to rock the shitbox fleets, have multiple cars (or trucks) on their properties in various states of disrepair and they're going to try cash in on it by introducing this permit scheme to rake in some extra income, or its a poor effort to gentrify the areas and disincentivise you rocking the shitbox fleet.

[Itsme]

Damo, you are bit slow tonight, aussiblue beat you on this topic.

https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11502729

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Damo, you are bit slow tonight, aussiblue beat you on this topic.

https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11502729

By heaps, getting slow in my old age

My bad, admins can you please close, I'll go over and put my two cents in there.

[Itsme]

I can see everyone abiding by the local bylaws, good luck with that.

[cosworthfreak]

Originally Posted by Itsme

I can see everyone abiding by the local bylaws, good luck with that.

Problem will be your neighbours dobbing you in all the time, if you don’t get on with them especially.

[Adamz Ghia]

This isn’t going to affect most people. Those who work on cars as a hobby and don’t take the **** will be able to carry on doing what they do.

Then there’s people who live up the road from me who block the footpath while they work on their Commodore (the engine and transmission were taken out out 5 times last year), park 5 cars of which two are unregistered all over the place and create crazy amounts of noise at all hours while they do this work. These people are who these laws are for.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

This isn’t going to affect most people. Those who work on cars as a hobby and don’t take the **** will be able to carry on doing what they do.

Then there’s people who live up the road from me who block the footpath while they work on their Commodore (the engine and transmission were taken out out 5 times last year), park 5 cars of which two are unregistered all over the place and create crazy amounts of noise at all hours while they do this work. These people are who these laws are for.

And those laws mean nothing to those people.
They'll keep doing what they do, fines will be unpaid and council will put them in the too hard basket because they're battlers/sovereign citizens/first nations etc.
Fines are for the middle class as they can afford the fines, have too much to lose if they ignore them and and are too busy to fight them.

Wouldn't have a problem with this if it was a new suburb, but it shouldn't be retrospective in an an existing one.

[foxtrot3]

Hi. I dont think The City of Casey is happy about the article either, going by their website it seems to be the same as almost any other council.

Over recent days there has been some inaccurate information published online regarding Council’s Private Land Use Permit.

To clarify and reassure our community, this permit is part of the Casey Community Local Law and designed to protect the health, peace and safety of our community.

This permit has been in place for several decades, and aligns with our Local Law.

The Private Land Use Permit is not a tool designed to restrict or limit residents' activities on their own property, such as working on their cars or motorbikes, nor does it prevent visiting family or friends from staying in a caravan. It is simply a means to manage nuisance behaviours that disrupt the wellbeing of the community. Additionally, it is important to note that the use of such permits is common across many local councils in Victoria, not unique to Casey.

The purpose of the Private Land Use Permit is to address and mitigate nuisance behaviour that causes distress or concerns to neighbours and the broader community.

This includes issues such as large trucks being parked on private property, creating noise at inappropriate hours or causing damage to local streets, or individuals living in caravans on private property for extended periods of time, leading to potential health or water waste concerns, or properties hoarding old cars, which can negatively affect the local amenity and appearance of the street.

Instances where a resident needs to apply for a permit include:

Using a recreational vehicle (e.g. go-kart or motorbike) on a private property
Storing a shipping container (up to 90 days)
Storing long heavy vehicles (e.g. large trucks)
Storing more than 2 unregistered vehicles
Using a temporary dwellings like a caravan for more than 14 days in any 60-day period.
Unfortunately, in recent days, our Customer Service Team has been subjected to threatening behaviour as a result of inaccurate information.

Our staff are here to assist and provide accurate information, and we request that all members of our community to approach them with respect and understanding.

Somehow I think the car expert team is trying to make a mountain from a dunghill. Cheers MD

[Franco Cozzo]

Its conveniently timed after our local government elections too, how come they didn't want to run with this one as one of their policy objectives into the election I wonder?

I reckon they've identified that low socioeconomic communities tend to rock the shitbox fleets, have multiple cars (or trucks) on their properties in various states of disrepair and they're going to try cash in on it by introducing this permit scheme to rake in some extra income, or its a poor effort to gentrify the areas and disincentivise you rocking the shitbox fleet.

City of Casey covers a few dodgy areas of the south eastern suburbs, where you got a lot of my types

I tried to do the right thing and applied for a parking permit for my truck with my local council, after a few months they sent out a local laws officer to my joint, who told me he's leaving next week and that they're about to change the local laws in a few months to get rid of the truck parking permit because its controversial with locals and that they'll try rush through my application.

Then they sat on it for months and months until they changed the local laws and removed it, even though I was following up heaps, then they tried to refund me for my 'street signage permit' I applied for (WTF).

Corrupt bastards, they basically took $170 off me to **** me around and ignored and waited for the laws to change before contacting me.

I find the funny part Casey City Council talking about this:

“detrimental to the amenity of the area”

Thats hilarious,

Explosion danger at Vic housing estate

Methane gas leaking from a closed landfill into neighbouring houses is a problem almost without precedent on a world scale, fire authorities have told a public meeting.

Residents of a the Brookland Greens housing estate at Cranbourne, south-east of Melbourne, have been urged to leave their homes because of the leak, which is creeping through the ground to the surface in an area beside the old tip, which has been capped.

Dangerous concentrations of methane have been detected in confined areas including the wall cavity of a house, under the kitchen sink of another and in stormwater pits around the estate.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/expl...0911-4emy.html

Methane gas landfill leak forces residents to evacuate suburb
“The land should never have been sold”

On September 11, Country Fire Authority chief officer Russell Rees advised owners of about 250 houses in the working class outer-Melbourne suburb of Cranbourne to move out after methane levels of 60 to 65 percent were found in some houses. Concentrations of 5-15 percent are considered an explosion risk.

The gas emanated from a closed landfill bordering the Brookland Greens housing development. Since the evacuation notice was issued, it has been revealed that the state government planning review body approved the housing development after ignoring Environmental Protection Agency safety warnings.

Residents were initially advised they would have to stay away for a year, and that it could be as long as 24 months before measures were put in place to fix the leakage problem. While the Victorian state government offered paltry conditional emergency grants of $8,500, it was left up to households to organise their own accommodation. With few options available, only 33 of the 230 households in the affected zone initially moved out. In the past week, at least 21 of those have returned following zero readings from methane gas monitors.

The immediate danger of home gas explosions seems to have passed, but hundreds of residents are now faced with ongoing safety fears and a continuing methane stench. Many, including those with large mortgages, also face a devastating collapse in the value of their homes, threatening their income security and retirement nest-egg.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2008/09/mgas-s25.html

Was this “detrimental to the amenity of the area”?

Old articles but parts that their LGA covers, is built over/near an old tip site which had a lot of issues, I didn't see City of Casey too willing to deal with this one being “detrimental to the amenity of the area”.

This will probably give other LGA's in Melbourne and surrounds ideas I reckon.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its conveniently timed after our local government elections too, how come they didn't want to run with this one as one of their policy objectives into the election I wonder? .

This is typical of the local governments, especially the Wackjob Greens. No full policy disclosure, and then this sort of BS comes out after they are elected.

Thankfully the people in our LG area rejected the worst of these fools (based on their previous performance).

[cosworthfreak]

I’ll bet 2 bob real estate agents/property managers +/- landlords have been part of the push for this. Years ago we had a very bad property manager/agent where we were renting. I had my 70s Ford which was unregistered but complete, and we had my wife’s 80s Subaru which was starting to have issues parked next to it, also unregistered but complete. They were the worst agents we had in all our rental years, and had it in for us because I wouldn’t put up with their crap. One thing they tried to push on us was ‘you can’t have unregistered cars on the property’, claiming it was against the law (it wasn’t). That was in the mid 2000s in Canberra. I checked with local government who confirmed there was no such rule. Even if something like the above was in place, they were both under a carport behind a gate, so no ‘detriment to the amenity of the area’. The attitude they had towards anyone who would have an unregistered car on a property (and renters in general) was the real undercurrent though.

Hope everyone in the relevant area above really fights this and overturns it for good. Bloody disgraceful.

[Interceptor]

Why does it not surprise me in the slightest that this is coming from a suburb of melbourne?

[AMB]

I can see it happening all over the place here in Geelong and Melbourne areas. Don't know what its like elsewhere, but here they've be creating these new suburbs where the houses are packed in like sardines on small blocks with no backyards, garage access is straight off the street, with little to no driveway. Its cheap housing (and cheaply built housing) for low socioeconomic communities, exactly the people who need a decent backyard, driveway, and workshop to save money by doing everything themselves (car and other repairs, veggie garden, money-making hobbies, developing skills, kids learning to make and work on things etc etc). I've been saying it for years, I see these places becoming slums in the years to come. Probably the councils are now starting to see it, and are trying to prevent the streets becoming littered with derelict cars and other rubbish. The locals councils created the problem in the first place by approving these subdivisions with tiny house blocks. No doubt tidy profits were made on these new subdivisions. No backyards mean you get an extra house block for every 3 or 4. Profits were maximised by very very slowly releasing the land over the last 2 or 3 decades -they created this housing shortage.

[Rallye Sport]

Despite the palpable outrage apathy will once again prevail.
How many people will front a meeting of council to voice their objections?





.....didn't think so

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

Despite the palpable outrage apathy will once again prevail.
How many people will front a meeting of council to voice their objections?





.....didn't think so

The 500 people in City of Casey who support this ridiculous permit system, while the ones who have a problem with it will just complain, then pay for their permit(s)

Had something similar happen here, they surveyed our whole town and over 60% of the towns eligible voters didn't even respond to it, then they complained about the result

What happens is the only people who turn out are ones who are either very motivated for or against something and the rest show apathy, that's how you get some weird local government shenanigans going on because it's treated as meme level politics.

This whole drama with City of Casey, its one of those things where as a community you can punch down on them because they're a minority of voters, so even if they got active and tried to do something about it, which is highly unlikely anyway, they don't have the numbers against the apathetics to have control over it.

There's a pretty big 'it doesn't effect me, so I don't care' undercurrent in our society.

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The 500 people in City of Casey who support this ridiculous permit system, while the ones who have a problem with it will just complain, then pay for their permit(s)

You haven't been to many council meetings have you
For or against no one will bother, comments will be called and it'll be crickets.
Heres the people that will turn up though.

The local pests to complain about the antisocial behaviour at the local skate park. The council must persecute those children for enjoying the fresh air and exercise,

The retired public servant there for a hard-on of protocol and procedure, its better than being at home with the mrs he'll chuckle to anyone within earshot.

The super mums presenting an FB petition for another crosswalk after one of their ducklings was nearly bowled over by a Ranger driver when it would have just been easier to teach your darlings to stop, look and listen.

And finally a couple of local battlers that have worked out these meetings are usually catered and the foods not bad either. They'll make no comments but actively staunch anyone that does. 'The quicker this is all done the quicker we eat'

Head along one day and tell me I'm wronq

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

You haven't been to many council meetings have you
For or against no one will bother, comments will be called and it'll be crickets.
Heres the people that will turn up though.

The local pests to complain about the antisocial behaviour at the local skate park. The council must persecute those children for enjoying the fresh air and exercise,

The retired public servant there for a hard-on of protocol and procedure, its better than being at home with the mrs he'll chuckle to anyone within earshot.

The super mums presenting an FB petition for another crosswalk after one of their ducklings was nearly bowled over by a Ranger driver when it would have just been easier to teach your darlings to stop, look and listen.

And finally a couple of local battlers that have worked out these meetings are usually catered and the foods not bad either. They'll make no comments but actively staunch anyone that does. 'The quicker this is all done the quicker we eat'

Head along one day and tell me I'm wronq

Might head along for the feed, I'll take photos of it and then review on google

1 star rating, no steak and chips, this is the worst (free) feed I've ever had in my life, do not recommend,

Don't move here, if the food is like this then whats the rest of the joint like?

[Sprintey]

I think this is perfect situation that may merit a facegram inspired rally of the people - get the people together with every local shitbox they can find and park all over the local council offices, block them in just like the Dutch Farmers do!

French farmers have a pooh canon, if anyone has that, well more the merrier.

[randel]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

.....
The retired public servant there for a hard-on of protocol and procedure, its better than being at home with the mrs he'll chuckle to anyone within earshot.
....

I think theres some of them around here.

Know everything, never wrong, always the victim

[Sprintey]

I think Vicco is ripe for a change in government and something like a Kennett, or maybe even a Millei might be the only way to stop its bureaucratic enlargement.

Wasn't in Vic then, but the late 1980s saw: ALP long term govt, debt balloon ->Kirner gets the poison handball -> Kennett landslide election win -> painful change.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

Despite the palpable outrage apathy will once again prevail.
How many people will front a meeting of council to voice their objections?





.....didn't think so

You are either outdated or your council is outdated, no need to front council anymore since all policies & articles can be discussed online, well at least my council does this, you just need to keep tabs online as to what is going on.

But you are right, apathy rules with most constituents in local, state & federal levels of govco

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Itsme

You are either outdated or your council is outdated, no need to front council anymore since all policies & articles can be discussed online, well at least my council does this, you just need to keep tabs online as to what is going on.

But you are right, apathy rules with most constituents in local, state & federal levels of govco

They still very much exist though although it has been many years since I worked in LG but the mrs still caters for many such meetings though the company she works for. (thats how I know about the food)

[Franco Cozzo]

I like to get the perspectives of the boffins over at Reddit, particularly in r/Melbourne because they're a strange lot, the majority of them are in support of these council bylaws regulating people having cars on their properties and the like



You can see the attitudes on display from the average person, they're supportive of it, most of the arguments for the permit system are coming from people pushing the environmental damage that they perceive cars do, and also things like 'about time car drivers paid for the space they take up', so there's a lots of underlying support here.

Having a look at the council, this is what their law states:

28. Vehicles and Machinery

(1) A person must not, except with a permit, use private land to:

(a) dismantle;

(b) repair; or

(c) service

vehicles or machinery in circumstances where the activity or use is detrimental to the amenity of the area in which the private land is located.

(2) An owner or occupier of private land must not, except with a permit, keep on that private land more than two vehicles which are not currently registered with or have a permit from the Department of Transport and Planning or any other relevant registering authority

So this can take in you working on your own project car, and I suspect this will be up to your neighbors dobbing you into the council. I don't like how gray area its worded 'detrimental to the amenity of the area in which the private land is located.' - by whose definition and what exactly, lowering of land values? 'Unsightly activities'/Eyesore? That old person who looks out their lounge room window and complains about everything?

Looking at the permit fees:

Activities requiring a permit on private land use

If you want to conduct any of the following activities on private land, you will need a permit.

Storing or repairing a recreational vehicle
Storing a shipping container (up to 90 days)
Storing long heavy vehicles (If you intend to park more than 1 long heavy vehicle on private land, please consult our planning team).
Storing more than 2 unregistered vehicles (up to 90 days)
Storing a skip bin
Putting up temporary dwellings (no more than 14 days in any 60-day period)
Dismantle, repair or service vehicles on private land (non-commercial)

You must provide a site plan

You must provide a site plan that illustrates where your activity will take place in relation to the intersection.
Fees

Application Fee: $150 (non-refundable)
Permit Fee: $150
Long/Heavy Vehicles: $473.00 (for storing 1 heavy vehicle)
Shipping Container: $350.00
Temporary Dwelling: $350.00
Unregistered Vehicle: $250 (per vehicle)
Dismantle, repair or service vehicles on private land - $250 (per vehicle)

The Permit Fee applies to types of Public Land Use permits not specified above. Application fee and permit fee are both payable at time of application. Permit fee will be refunded if your application is unsuccessful.

https://www.casey.vic.gov.au/apply-p...and-use-permit

[Sprintey]

One comment I found on the CE article was this by 'Itsumishi'

"City of Casey's Council was sacked and Administrators were appointed for four years from 2020 until November 2024. It seems like the decision to enact these permits was put in place by the Administrators back in June.

The sacking of the Council was done under Local Government Minister Adem Somyurek in the name of *aherm* stamping out corruption."

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I like to get the perspectives of the boffins over at Reddit, particularly in r/Melbourne because they're a strange lot, the majority of them are in support of these council bylaws regulating people having cars on their properties and the like

image

You can see the attitudes on display from the average person, they're supportive of it, most of the arguments for the permit system are coming from people pushing the environmental damage that they perceive cars do, and also things like 'about time car drivers paid for the space they take up', so there's a lots of underlying support here.

Having a look at the council, this is what their law states:



So this can take in you working on your own project car, and I suspect this will be up to your neighbors dobbing you into the council. I don't like how gray area its worded 'detrimental to the amenity of the area in which the private land is located.' - by whose definition and what exactly, lowering of land values? 'Unsightly activities'/Eyesore? That old person who looks out their lounge room window and complains about everything?

Looking at the permit fees:





https://www.casey.vic.gov.au/apply-p...and-use-permit

Then when the working poor and those on low incomes can’t afford repairs to their vehicles, especially those who’ve splashed out on a 15 year old Euro, the ones in support of this will publicly drag workshops through the mud and claim they’re preying on vulnerable poor people.

[Franco Cozzo]

Somyurekt

[AMB]

I presume the propose legislation is to do with cars at the front of a property were the work being done is visible and "unsightly" from the street. Surely they can't enforce such rules if you are doing it out of sight down the back or even behind a high front fence. It would be like trying to control what you can do inside your home.

[Captain Stubing]

Originally Posted by AMB

I presume the propose legislation is to do with cars at the front of a property were the work being done is visible and "unsightly" from the street. Surely they can't enforce such rules if you are doing it out of sight down the back or even behind a high front fence. It would be like trying to control what you can do inside your home.

In line with Foxtrot3's post, https://www.fordforums.com.au/vbport...6&postcount=15, I think you're on the money. It's a rule created to get rid of nuisance residents habits, ie.. hoarders and such.
It's not designed for the everyday man/woman.